Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[bsdnf]

Some PLA observers (and leakers in this event) on Weibo & Guancha(Yankee & Xi Yazhou) dont think that the J-36 needs to/can accelerate to Mach 3 and 30km. They point out that the core speed indicator of the J-36 is to ensure long-term supersonic cruise under the premise of long range (for example, CAP on 2IC). Under this requirement, maintaining just Mach 1.5+ while carrying a bunch of payload is good enough.

 

[talonn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of an AWACS that can be anywhere and quickly reposition while remaining unspotted is revolutionary for air warfare.

Didnt the americans say their f35 and b21 can be mini awacs too? Correct me if I am wrong

 

[siegecrossbow]

Didnt the americans say their f35 and b21 can be mini awacs too? Correct me if I am wrong

Hence the need to boost power generation and cooling for blk 4.

 

[bsdnf]

Didnt the americans say their f35 and b21 can be mini awacs too? Correct me if I am wrong

F-35 is still struggling with power generation and cooling issues, the fuselage just too small to bear so many additional requirements

 

[Biscuits]

Didnt the americans say their f35 and b21 can be mini awacs too? Correct me if I am wrong

That's just a standard level of 5th gen sensors on the F-35.

It's more unclear what B-21 will be but basically now there's less B-21 than Su-57M (not even Su-57 regular). So imo too early to say what exact systems they can put on B-21. It is a very large airframe, but it only has 2 WS-15 equivalents powering the whole thing. On the other hand it doesn't need to fly fast, so I'd believe it's powerplants do allow for awacs like generation.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

In the latest talkshow Yankee says:

1) J-36 will not be a Mach 3 capable aircraft.

It often boggles mind whenever people think that more engines must be equal to higher (max) speeds. The H-20 is expected to be powered by four engines - Does anyone seriously believe that the H-20 must be able to travel at Mach 4??

Also, has there been any considerations given to how the stealth paints and coatings would perform under such speeds of travel, whenever such claims arise? Come on guys, be realistic.

If you want a much higher speed warplane, then kindly wait for 7th-gens with near-space/suborbital capabilities... maybe.

8) Yankee once again agrees with SDF assessment that the J-36 is not a simple fighter, fighter bomber, bomber, etc. but a new system altogether. It is more akin to an air based cruiser.

Will post the link when it is up on bilibili.

Honestly, I think we'd be better to stick with "multi-role combat warplanes" when referring to the likes of J-36, J-XDS and even the H-20, going forward. Perhaps referring to them by their relative sizes and manned/unmanned feature could help to distinguish them.

Last-but-not-least - There will never be a JH-XX, and the J-36 will never be one (despite some groups of people, including the infamous grifter 落总师 on Bilibili, would like to imply).

 

[Biscuits]

It often boggles mind whenever people think that more engines must be equal to higher (max) speeds. The H-20 is expected to be powered by four engines - Does anyone seriously think that the H-20 must be able to travel at Mach 4??

Also, has there been any considerations given on how the stealth paints and coatings would perform under such speeds of travel, whenever such claims arise? Come on guys, be realistic.

If you want a much higher speed warplane, then kindly wait for 7th-gens with near-space/suborbital capabilities.



Honestly, I think it'd be better to stick with "multi-role combat warplanes" when referring to the likes of J-36, J-XDS and even the H-20, going forward.

Last-but-not-least - There will never be a JH-XX, and the J-36 will never be one (despite some groups of people, including the infamous grifter 落总师 on Bilibili, would like to imply).

Is it really so from a credible source that H-20 will have 4 engines? I might have assumed 2 for subsonic flying wing, but then that might be paradoxical as the J-36 already has 3.

With 4 engines it's going to produce same thrust as a Tu-160.

 

[Stealthflanker]

Power generation wise tho. Any info on what engine mounted generator for say WS-10 or WS-15's ?

Russians for example developed GP-21 for early AL-31F engine. The generator provides about 30 KW of power, 2 engines means 60 KW. Later flankers are using GP-25 which provides 60 KW thus later flankers may have some 120 KW of electrical power generation ability. Below is some example of electrical power generation capability of some aircrafts.



The 3 engines on the J-36 might allow, assuming GP-25 like still used some 180 KW of power, can be higher if China design better generators or even somehow make provisions to allow the say 3rd engine to have pads to accommodate extra generator, this can provides at least 240 KW. The future however might be to directly integrate the generator into the engine, make use of the centerbody. Tho, this might need new engine design.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Power generation wise tho. Any info on what engine mounted generator for say WS-10 or WS-15's ?

Russians for example developed GP-21 for early AL-31F engine. The generator provides about 30 KW of power, 2 engines means 60 KW. Later flankers are using GP-25 which provides 60 KW thus later flankers may have some 120 KW of electrical power generation ability. Below is some example of electrical power generation capability of some aircrafts.

View attachment 142277

The 3 engines on the J-36 might allow, assuming GP-25 like still used some 180 KW of power, can be higher if China design better generators or even somehow make provisions to allow the say 3rd engine to have pads to accommodate extra generator, this can provides at least 240 KW. The future however might be to directly integrate the generator into the engine, make use of the centerbody. Tho, this might need new engine design.

My guess would be WS-15 for initial batch and new VCE as the platform matures. WS-15 is probably not tailored specifically to the design requirement for sixth gen.

 

[tphuang]

Thank you. The following paragraph hit the main point I had been wondering. What if all three engines do not have afterburners at all. WS-15 is about 100kN dry, so three of them produce 30 ton force without afterburners.

"Three engines in the thrust class of 22,000 lb (10,000kg or 100-kilonewtons) should be enough to make the J-36 a supercruiser—an aircraft that can fly supersonically without using fuel-guzzling afterburning. Its sweep angles point to doing this at Mach 1.8 to Mach 2.0 (1900km/h to 2200km/h, depending on altitude)."

That is really small. I'd be surprised if WS-15 isn't something like 110-120kN dry and 170-185kN wet.

I find it hard to believe 300kN thrust is enough to make J-36 cruise at Mach 2.0.

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Actually, I think we are so far away from understanding what 7th generation is.

I do think conceptually speaking, we are going to hit something pretty impressive very soon after J-36 go into service.

And I'm putting this in the 2035-2037 timeline whereas J-36 is probably 2030-2032 timeline.

there has been a whole bunch of hypersonic and high supersonic testing recently. The most obvious change is for a next generation drone to be able to cruise across Pacific Ocean at mach 4 to 5 at near space altitude, drop munitions and then come back.

The current level of air defense simply cannot intercept something like that.

And probably more importantly, nothing is even developed by US MIC to intercept something like that.