Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

bsdnf

Junior Member
Registered Member
The QJ is probably not a variety of specific models designed for specific missions, but several general medium and large models (emphasis on range and stealth) that achieve mission specialization through modular mounts.

“Instances of war conflicts in recent years have proven that the battlefield importance of low-cost expendable platforms cannot be ignored, but they have also exposed the difficulties faced by their survival and mission completion: For example, the Ukrainian army’s TB-2 drone failed to achieve success in the Russia-Ukraine conflict despite its results. Not bad, but the loss rate in the process exceeds 50%[30], and the combat effectiveness decreases significantly as Russia's air defense capabilities increase. In a strong confrontation environment, we need to face threats from different directions, dimensions and forms, and first consider how to effectively accomplish the combat mission. Need to "high survivability, wide speed range, strong perception, and strong firepower" must form the basis for victory. Otherwise, we will fall into "impenetrable, unable to keep up, unable to see clearly, and unable to kill." Looking at various countries, whether it is the XQ-58A, the Gambit concept aircraft[31], the XQ-67A demonstrator, or the Russian "Hunter" drone that has been successively disclosed in the development of CCA by the US military, they are all first oriented towards collaborative operations. To match the needs of manned aircraft, the platform speed range and stealth should be expanded for "keeping up" and "penetration", while adopting a comprehensive design concept that coordinates enhanced maneuverability, perception and weapon load. However, the performance improvement of unmanned platforms has not been achieved. It does not mean "absolute high-end" without trade-offs. From multiple perspectives such as implementation, use, and cost, it is not necessary and should not integrate full functions and full loads on a single platform, but can achieve equipment capabilities/cost/through modular mounting. The optimal balance of technology. This trend will promote the new development of high-performance collaborative combat drone comprehensive support technology toward systematization and scale. "

"In addition to the evaluation of traditional conventional economic factors such as acquisition cost and consumption cost, it is also necessary to examine the cost-effectiveness of high-performance drones from the perspective of mission effectiveness. When facing a powerful enemy, mission completion should be used as a criterion to evaluate the cost of use. The premise is to face an opponent with a multi-layered and complete defense system, multi-dimensional combat capabilities, and strong industrial production potential, and evaluate the "effective cost" with the purpose of penetrating, surviving, and completing tasks, rather than just low price but difficult to adapt. The “ineffective costs” of combat.
The XQ-58A, one of the US CCA candidates, was once widely considered to be a cheap platform with a unit price of US$3 million, which led some observers to believe that CCA would take a low-cost, low-performance route. In November 2023, Kendall revealed in a public interview that the cost of CCA will reach 1/4~1/3 of the F-35. On the one hand, it confirms that CCA will not be able to pursue the so-called "Affordable Mass" just by lowering prices. It is speculated that CCA may be similar to the F-35 in that it has a relatively cheap basic platform and carries specific mission loads according to different combat needs to improve comprehensive capabilities, while the equipment cost will change based on modular loads and capabilities. The above ideas also bring new thinking to traditional cost evaluation methods: the equipment form of "basic platform + incremental capabilities" can not only bring about incremental improvements in capabilities, but also provide new ways to reduce procurement and use costs. Similar to the field of family cars, the same model of the same brand can usually be launched in versions with different configurations such as "Basic", "Pilot" and "Flagship". Users can choose different load configurations according to different usage scenarios to obtain different usage experiences, and bear corresponding responsibilities. Differentiated economic expenditures. In summary, the equipment value scale of "mission effective cost" should be constructed based on the premise of completing combat missions, rather than taking the "consumable" individual price of equipment as the only condition for measuring economic efficiency. "
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Part 2 of my infographics series on how I expect the PLAAF will use the J-36. PLAAF CCA will be included after their public flight test. Please check out part 0 and part 1 as well. Feel free to share.

This time I describe how I think the J-36 can be used in defensive counter air to defeat large well-supported numerically superior hostile strike groups.

View attachment 142150
The side array reminds me of a battleship broadside. People are no joking when they say this is a air cruiser. But no, this is almost like an air dreadnought. Because for planes, missiles are the naval guns, stealth and ECM are the armor. They are going to cross T like the classic naval battles.
 

sutton999

Junior Member
Registered Member
The US has a lot of crappy islands. Putting expensive drones on these islands with limited supporting facilities is not worth it.
It is a kind of guerrilla warfare tactica, with flying island mines.

The lower-end QJ will be equipped with one WS-19 or better. Any QJ launches from 076 won't be cheap either.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Don't blame these two guys. Their perspective is how do we fight with the aircraft we have (and the F-16's they flew). They didn't talk down about the design. It was a pretty non biased video and very analytical even if it was inaccurate.
Same energy as PLAAF in 90's talking how to beat the F-22 Raptor.

"We just gotta outnumber it with J-7 and swarm it in dogfights, man."

This is what happens when you are outgunned 2 generations. Only thing left to rely on is your guts and enemy making mistakes.

This is not intended to mock them. Because back in the day that was exactly how J-7 were trained for. Chase enemy at high speed and force a dog fight with number on your side.
 
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GTI

Junior Member
Registered Member
The QJ is probably not a variety of specific models designed for specific missions, but several general medium and large models (emphasis on range and stealth) that achieve mission specialization through modular mounts.

“Instances of war conflicts in recent years have proven that the battlefield importance of low-cost expendable platforms cannot be ignored, but they have also exposed the difficulties faced by their survival and mission completion: For example, the Ukrainian army’s TB-2 drone failed to achieve success in the Russia-Ukraine conflict despite its results. Not bad, but the loss rate in the process exceeds 50%[30], and the combat effectiveness decreases significantly as Russia's air defense capabilities increase. In a strong confrontation environment, we need to face threats from different directions, dimensions and forms, and first consider how to effectively accomplish the combat mission. Need to "high survivability, wide speed range, strong perception, and strong firepower" must form the basis for victory. Otherwise, we will fall into "impenetrable, unable to keep up, unable to see clearly, and unable to kill." Looking at various countries, whether it is the XQ-58A, the Gambit concept aircraft[31], the XQ-67A demonstrator, or the Russian "Hunter" drone that has been successively disclosed in the development of CCA by the US military, they are all first oriented towards collaborative operations. To match the needs of manned aircraft, the platform speed range and stealth should be expanded for "keeping up" and "penetration", while adopting a comprehensive design concept that coordinates enhanced maneuverability, perception and weapon load. However, the performance improvement of unmanned platforms has not been achieved. It does not mean "absolute high-end" without trade-offs. From multiple perspectives such as implementation, use, and cost, it is not necessary and should not integrate full functions and full loads on a single platform, but can achieve equipment capabilities/cost/through modular mounting. The optimal balance of technology. This trend will promote the new development of high-performance collaborative combat drone comprehensive support technology toward systematization and scale. "

"In addition to the evaluation of traditional conventional economic factors such as acquisition cost and consumption cost, it is also necessary to examine the cost-effectiveness of high-performance drones from the perspective of mission effectiveness. When facing a powerful enemy, mission completion should be used as a criterion to evaluate the cost of use. The premise is to face an opponent with a multi-layered and complete defense system, multi-dimensional combat capabilities, and strong industrial production potential, and evaluate the "effective cost" with the purpose of penetrating, surviving, and completing tasks, rather than just low price but difficult to adapt. The “ineffective costs” of combat.
The XQ-58A, one of the US CCA candidates, was once widely considered to be a cheap platform with a unit price of US$3 million, which led some observers to believe that CCA would take a low-cost, low-performance route. In November 2023, Kendall revealed in a public interview that the cost of CCA will reach 1/4~1/3 of the F-35. On the one hand, it confirms that CCA will not be able to pursue the so-called "Affordable Mass" just by lowering prices. It is speculated that CCA may be similar to the F-35 in that it has a relatively cheap basic platform and carries specific mission loads according to different combat needs to improve comprehensive capabilities, while the equipment cost will change based on modular loads and capabilities. The above ideas also bring new thinking to traditional cost evaluation methods: the equipment form of "basic platform + incremental capabilities" can not only bring about incremental improvements in capabilities, but also provide new ways to reduce procurement and use costs. Similar to the field of family cars, the same model of the same brand can usually be launched in versions with different configurations such as "Basic", "Pilot" and "Flagship". Users can choose different load configurations according to different usage scenarios to obtain different usage experiences, and bear corresponding responsibilities. Differentiated economic expenditures. In summary, the equipment value scale of "mission effective cost" should be constructed based on the premise of completing combat missions, rather than taking the "consumable" individual price of equipment as the only condition for measuring economic efficiency. "
Easy with the bold coloured font there.
 
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