Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Something that comes to mind. In addition to how I perceive it as a B-21 hunter, isn't it also the nemesis/counter to USMC's strategy of island hopping?

With increased range, speed, and most importantly loiter time, a CHAD will be able to cover a large amount of space and quickly respond and interdict any attempts of Marine Littoral Regiments to move assets around.
 

bsdnf

New Member
Registered Member
Something that comes to mind. In addition to how I perceive it as a B-21 hunter, isn't it also the nemesis/counter to USMC's strategy of island hopping?

With increased range, speed, and most importantly loiter time, a CHAD will be able to cover a large amount of space and quickly respond and interdict any attempts of Marine Littoral Regiments to move assets around.
All critical air assets within the 2IC are targets of the J-36. USN search and strike against PLA forward carrier formations, USMC island guerrilla warfare, F-35s in the 2IC or even outside of the 2IC assaulting into the 1IC via aerial refueling to fight for air superiority (may the pilots bring enough pee-bags) all rely on these air assets
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is how I think. J36 is the more stealthier, longer range and higher payload version of J20S.

J36 can also command 4-5 loyalman vs only two loyalman for J20s. Everything is one notch up compared to J20s.
According to Yang Wei the new fighter is capable of punching through highly defended air space that J20 and its likes (F-22, F-35) has to stay away, therefor it is a generation above. Not only it can control more drones but it has much lower RCS than J20 alike with high speed.
1735495205390.png
 

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
All critical air assets within the 2IC are targets of the J-36. USN search and strike against PLA forward carrier formations, USMC island guerrilla warfare, F-35s in the 2IC or even outside of the 2IC assaulting into the 1IC via aerial refueling to fight for air superiority (may the pilots bring enough pee-bags) all rely on these air assets
There are plenty of other ways to deal with 2IC targets. J-36 plays an import role but war is about everyone working together.
- USMC camped on small islands can be neutralized with loitering munitions deployed from ships, USVs or UUVs without any PLA boot on island, any surviving infantry can play Cast Away until end of war.
- Both sides has aerial refueling but 2IC islands are much closer to China, which is to say it's PLA aerial refueling basing out of captured 2IC islands that'll project power to Hawaii and eastern Pacific. Once war starts US has no actual ability to maintain presence west of Hawaii.
- Type 076 launched aerial refueling drones can extend J-36 range well east of Hawaii, and Chinese fleets can be supplied by China's massive merchant marine bulk carrier and oiler force, compariably US entirely relies on supercarriers and has a tiny merchant marine force.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
- USMC camped on small islands can be neutralized with loitering munitions deployed from ships, USVs or UUVs without any PLA boot on island, any surviving infantry can play Cast Away until end of war.
Ukrainian experience says it can't, if there's enough local stuff to blend in.

Summ of Islands we're talking about is many times the size of Ukraine, launchers and especially their weapons are small and can be delivered Yemen-style.

Furthermore, even the very airspace over those marines will have to be contested and won; bluefor and local armed forces won't give it up without a fight.

So, IMHO, it's likely to take exactly boots on the ground, with all the same fight preconditions as for Taiwan.
With same high requirement for PCA type platform (j-36) to interdict blue rear.
Furthermore, there's a whole continent down there.

Basically, check empire of Japan 1941-42 problems and ways to address them. Same geography, similar problem.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
That was kinda my concern also, if IRST is a major feature of this new aircraft, they must be confident that IR is able to effectively counter VLO.

Beyond just the durability of the RAM coating, operating an aircraft at mach 2+ would create significant heat and lighting up the aircraft for all to see, rendering radar stealth moot?

Some folk have questioned the thermal signature implications of a Mach >2.0 supercruise capability that is being widely attributed to this aircraft. I would add to this a query regarding the durability and maintainability of RAM coatings under such conditions.

The reason why radar is the preferred means of long range object detection is that it is a active scatter method. You send out either a broadband pulse (or many narrowband pulses that have the total area coverage of a broadband pulse) with no assumptions as to where you think the targets are. Then you monitor for return scattering.

As a scatter method, you have information on 1. when your pulse goes out and 2. when the return pulse hits 4. doppler shift of the return waveform 4. distortion of the return waveform.

This has advantages:

1. you do not assume where your target is, you detect your target wherever it is.
2. you have ranging information based on time of flight
3. you have velocity information based on Doppler shift
4. you have orientation information based on waveform distortion

IR in comparison:

1. you must assume where your target is and point your detector in that direction such that the assumed target will be within the field of view of the detector.
2. your detector must change its orientation to match the change in angular position of the target to keep it in view.
3. you only see the 2D projection of the target which provides only angular position, not radial position.
4. you do not have full velocity information since there's no outgoing waveform to compare to
5. you do not have orientation information if the 2D projection is non-unique for a given orientation

Why is the IRST important then? Because of strategy.

1. China is on the strategic defensive, thus against VLO attacks against fixed targets within friendly territory, there will be VHF radars, military and civilian visual spotters, etc for early warning against VLO targets. An unsupported VLO penetrating attacker is then on a 1 way trip as VHF, spotters, etc vector interceptors with IRST towards it, who know the rough angle and distance. Even attacking the spotters is a bad idea, since they are easily replaced and reveal position anyhow.

2. Opponent is assumed to be on the strategic offensive, with disparate fixed and low speed sites within mostly neutral territory that cannot be made friendly (ocean). There are no spotters and no terrain to hide VHF radar. There is nobody to vector interceptors in a hidden way. All possible detectors are themselves high end assets.
 
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Nx4eu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Either my math is way off, but has anyone else calculated the size of the Radar that can be fitted into the Radome? People have been guessing 3000 t/r modules, Based on the size of the nose, and using rough trm density of the AN/APG-81. It seems to be that just the nose array could have upwards of 5500+ modules. Can anyone else confirm?

Of course this is all rough speculation, I used my own possible isometric drawings to create a model.

AN/APG-81
R = 35cm = 3848.45 cm^2 1,600 T/RM's = 0.415 TRM/cm^2

??? Radar
R = 67.5cm = 14313.88 cm^2 x 0.415TRM/cm^2 = 5,950 TRMs
Model.pngNose Array.png
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Ukrainian experience says it can't, if there's enough local stuff to blend in.

Summ of Islands we're talking about is many times the size of Ukraine, launchers and especially their weapons are small and can be delivered Yemen-style.

Furthermore, even the very airspace over those marines will have to be contested and won; bluefor and local armed forces won't give it up without a fight.

So, IMHO, it's likely to take exactly boots on the ground, with all the same fight preconditions as for Taiwan.
With same high requirement for PCA type platform (j-36) to interdict blue rear.
Furthermore, there's a whole continent down there.

Basically, check empire of Japan 1941-42 problems and ways to address them. Same geography, similar problem.
“Sum” of islands misses that hiding requires wide range for maneuver and a bunch of islands isolated from each other by water have much less contiguous area for maneuver. What makes finding targets in a wide area hard is that in a broad search space your probability of identifying the right starting points before the target moves is low. If the contiguous area is much smaller then repositioning opportunities and starting points in your search are more confined. The correct parameter here is positional uncertainty relative to search time of a space, not total sum of area.

This also isn’t 1940s Japan. And yes Australia would be a much more difficult nut to crack but if in a fight with the US the US is constrained to taking potshots from Australia China has basically all but won.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Either my math is way off, but has anyone else calculated the size of the Radar that can be fitted into the Radome? People have been guessing 3000 t/r modules, Based on the size of the nose, and using rough trm density of the AN/APG-81. It seems to be that just the nose array could have upwards of 5500+ modules. Can anyone else confirm?

Of course this is all rough speculation, I used my own possible isometric drawings to create a model.
View attachment 142153View attachment 142154

Is there room for side arrays in this arrangement?
 
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