Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[gongolongo]

The usual reliable sources say WS15. Yeah, it's iirc the first those have TVC, so initially I thought it was WS10C. But it's not.

Middle engine is not 100% known yet but conservatively speaking you can guess it's just another normal engine.

I found it interesting the top engine is the only one with a DSI hump

 

[Deino]

View attachment 142045

I slowly get a feeling these are faked… the landing gear was always down

 

[chinois49]

After closer inspection and more accurate calculations, the J-36 has a wing area of 170m2!

Strangely enough, its length and width are (almost) the same! The difference should be no more than 0.5m!

To compare the Tupolev 22 M3 has a wing area of 183 m2 for a maximum takeoff weight of 130 t. This aircraft has two turbojets with 50t of total thrust with afterburner. The J36 if equipped with WS15 would be at about 54 t of maximum thrust. As the J36 is a priori a fighter, and, to maintain maneuverability, we can estimate its total takeoff weight at about 75-85t and a dry weight of 35t...

 

[valysre]

Chinese Sixth Generation Fighter REVEALED​

Ward Carrol is a retired F-14 Tomcat RIO.Radar Intercept Officer. There is flight footage in the video.

Dry and to the point, with zero entertainment of baseless speculation. Kudos to Carrol for not hyperfixating on the JH-XX theory and recognizing the push this might give penny-pinching US generals.

Out of curiosity, the current prototype's engines are WS-10Cs, but will be upgraded (especially after J-20 goes to WS-15 sometime next year), but are there any successors to the WS-15 that we know of being worked on that might power J-36?

 

[sequ]

To compare the Tupolev 22 M3 has a wing area of 183 m2 for a maximum takeoff weight of 130 t. This aircraft has two turbojets with 50t of total thrust with afterburner. The J36 if equipped with WS15 would be at about 54 t of maximum thrust. As the J36 is a priori a fighter, and, to maintain maneuverability, we can estimate its total takeoff weight at about 75-85t and a dry weight of 35t...

I would put the empty weight at less than 35 tons. I won't be surprised if it is closer to 30 tons. Why? The wings by nature are much lighter than the fuselage and I don't think the wings are designed to carry payload. It defeats the purpose of such a highly advanced VLO platform. Perhaps only in the case of long range ferry it might carry low G-load external fuel tanks.

And since it's not a fighter in the traditional sense, it doesn't need to have a +9G rated airframe. This lowers the weight considerably.

Plus the fact that it uses the latest lightweight composite materials should also keep the weight in check.

 

[gongolongo]

I think your "China cannot afford two" premise - while true - undermines your own argument. It is precisely due to the high cost of 6th gen airframes that China probably cannot afford to have a fly-off competition using physically-flying prototypes à la the ATF program. Building a 6th gen platform only for bidding's sake is arguably an enormous waste of money and time/effort that could've gone to other projects rather than what essentially amounts to duplication of effort.

Hence, the fact that both Shenyang and CAC built and flew functioning prototypes almost definitely suggests that both are intended for service, and the lack of a historical PLAAF/PLAN "fly-off" is a testament to that.

Well I do think they can afford it, I'm just saying it's not evident of that yet. They're closer than anyone else it seems. I hope Shenyang just doesn't get left behind again.

 

[latenlazy]

Dry and to the point, with zero entertainment of baseless speculation. Kudos to Carrol for not hyperfixating on the JH-XX theory and recognizing the push this might give penny-pinching US generals.

Out of curiosity, the current prototype's engines are WS-10Cs, but will be upgraded (especially after J-20 goes to WS-15 sometime next year), but are there any successors to the WS-15 that we know of being worked on that might power J-36?

Work on a 15 T:W ratio engine started around 2016. There’s also work on a VCE. They might be the same project or separate projects that will eventually get combined.

 

[gongolongo]

Knowing how China works, we will most certainly have two, one way or other. Maybe one for navy one for air force, or one domestic one export, or both supplement each other (Mig31/Su-35).

NGAD contractor is not even selected. My optimistic estimation is flyable concept demonstrator, but final design requirement is not set. The final plane will be very different from current prototype.

Yeah to be clear I think China is ahead in the development process especially now. I can only wonder what the fleet will look like with J-20, J-35, CAC and Shenyang 6th gen.

 

[sus2024]

Yes, it's ps

I slowly get a feeling these are faked… the landing gear was always down

 

[sequ]

The inlets have a width of 150-160 cm

Cruising altitude 25km, max ceiling 30km...? At those altitudes, the angle vs other combat aircraft will work in favor of the J-36 in detecting them. Even 5th gens will be more vulnerable to be detected by radar and IR sensors from above.