Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[Overbom]

For 3km combat range, and some (non)permissions for overfly, it looks like all US bases in Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman are more or less in range.

This will massively expand Chinese threat vectors towards US forces stationed in Middle East. Could now expand from Asia Pacific to the Middle East theater
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Indonesia almost fully covered as well, with Australia in sight. Guam included btw

 

[Biscuits]

It’s ridiculous that B-21 can be considered sixth gen but J-36 cannot when the former is designed from the ground up to be a bomber.

Isn't it the other way around? Ppl are mostly calling B-21 6th gen only tongue in cheek. Once J-36 LRIP starts, it will be clear what a 6th gen fighter actually is.

Imho calling B-21 6th gen is like calling F-117 5th gen. Sure you can do it tongue in cheek but once F-22 dropped, anyone would realize F-117 was in fact not a 5th gen.

 

[sevrent]

Isn't it the other way around? Ppl are mostly calling B-21 6th gen only tongue in cheek. Once J-36 LRIP starts, it will be clear what a 6th gen fighter actually is.

Imho calling B-21 6th gen is like calling F-117 5th gen. Sure you can do it tongue in cheek but once F-22 dropped, anyone would realize F-117 was in fact not a 5th gen.

Why are we discussing B-21 in context of air superiority/ fighter? it’s a bomber which prioritizes very long range and carrying super outsized loads such as JASSM or hypersonics such as HACM/ARRW.

USAF did consider high speed supersonic bombers such as this and even FB-22 but always settled back on the conclusion that large subsonic bomber better suited their needs for its range and higher degree of stealth. As for 6th gen argument, honestly who cares this is all marketing at this point. But B-21 is VLO and prioritizes being a ‘node’ more than anything else. H-20 likely will be the same as well.

 

[AndrewS]

For 3km combat range, and some (non)permissions for overfly, it looks like all US bases in Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman are more or less in range.

This will massively expand Chinese threat vectors towards US forces stationed in Middle East. Could now expand from Asia Pacific to the Middle East theater

I've previously said that in the event of a US-China conflict, I think the Middle East will almost certainly be involved.

Consider how Israel is disliked or hated in the region because of the Genocide in Gaza and over 50 years of the Israeli government supporting Israeli colonists taking land from the existing inhabitants of the Palestinian West Bank.

We've also seen that the US will do anything and everything to support Israel.

So at a minimum, the Chinese would be supplying large numbers of rockets and drones to the region, for use against the Israel military occupation of Palestine, and to tie up US military resources.

 

[AndrewS]

Indonesia almost fully covered as well, with Australia in sight. Guam included btw

By the time the J-36 comes into service, you can assume that Chinese airborne tankers can safely operate over the South China Seas island bases.

If a J-36 refuels there, then 3000km takes you to the US bombers and US Marines based in Darwin, Australia.

 

[iewgnem]

Why are we discussing B-21 in context of air superiority/ fighter? it’s a bomber which prioritizes very long range and carrying super outsized loads such as JASSM or hypersonics such as HACM/ARRW.

USAF did consider high speed supersonic bombers such as this and even FB-22 but always settled back on the conclusion that large subsonic bomber better suited their needs for its range and higher degree of stealth. As for 6th gen argument, honestly who cares this is all marketing at this point. But B-21 is VLO and prioritizes being a ‘node’ more than anything else. H-20 likely will be the same as well.

People talk about B-21 because it's how Americans are coping about inability to develop NGAD.

B-21 is just lower cost B-2 restart, and a failed one at that considering it's $800M a pop, that's all.
Every other role assigned to it, be it NGAD or CCA "node" are just cope, because China already have a real CCA "node" and it's the chase plane for CHAD.
Nothing wrong with a subsonic stealth bomber, but if you need to rely on it to fufill every role, it really just means you can't develop anything else.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Isn't it the other way around? Ppl are mostly calling B-21 6th gen only tongue in cheek. Once J-36 LRIP starts, it will be clear what a 6th gen fighter actually is.

Imho calling B-21 6th gen is like calling F-117 5th gen. Sure you can do it tongue in cheek but once F-22 dropped, anyone would realize F-117 was in fact not a 5th gen.

Tell Grumman that.

 

[sevrent]

People talk about B-21 because it's how Americans are coping about inability to develop NGAD.

B-21 is just lower cost B-2 restart, and a failed one at that considering it's $800M a pop, that's all.
Every other role assigned to it, be it NGAD or CCA "node" are just cope, because China already have a real CCA "node" and it's the chase plane for CHAD.
Nothing wrong with a subsonic stealth bomber, but if you need to rely on it to fufill every role, it really just means you can't develop anything else.

This Idea of it being a AA platform never came from the USAF it came from a think tank paper proposing a hypothetical, why everyone here is speaking of it as if it’s ground truth is confusing. CCA + being a ‘node’ are just run of the mill 6th gen features as well. Again I dont see the big deal?

 

[leibowitz]

This has already been discussed many times.

Going forwards the differentiator between a "theater bomber" and a "large air superiority fighter" may not be particularly significant.

===

Crossposting something I wrote elsewhere:
"I see this aircraft as a large, long range and endurance, stealthy, command+processing platform to direct friendly UCAVs and other manned fighters, while possessing its own very capable onboard weapons + sensors to engage targets independently when needed, and to possess enough kinematics to engage, disengage or avoid engagements on its own terms.
And I also view the above descriptor as what the future of an "air superiority aircraft" may be oriented towards."

@Blitzo I think this is similar to how various tank types coalesced into the MBT in the early Cold War period

 

[tphuang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1872790885102190645

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