as per Huitong, J-36 prototype has WS-15 engines.
Orca talked about J-36 powerplant.. what about SAC prototype ?? @ACuriousPLAFan point does make sense considering the size of SAC prototype.
Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
analysis from @BoraTas
1- That cockpit is soo wide. Two side-by-side seats?
2- That top inlet looks more like a BIG cooling inlet from this angle. If true, their goal for cooling capacity must be very high. Potentially multi-megawatt level depending on their long term vision for radars and lasers.
There's a new paid episode of Chahuahui on QingTing FM talking about 6th gen, I highly recommend it. When the paid series came out I straight away paid for a year worth, that's how highly I think of it.
Anyway Yankee, Shilao and Ayi spent the first 80 minutes setting up history like NGAD, centuary series, last 40 minutes are all about the two prototypes. They recorded the show before news of either of the maiden flight hit the air wave and majority of it is in the context of the CAC prototype. Some new info:
Shilao and Yankee mentioned no less than 3 times the concept that if your 6th gen is a B-21, then you've already lost the game, or in Shilao's words "你已经急了”. Imagine how slow F-35 is and how that affects its air combat capabilities, then imagine your 6th gen is EVEN slower.
Reason for 3 engines has a lot to do with EW. Instead of existing setup of a regular fighter having EW specific version like J-16 and J-16D, PLAAF envisions future fighters to all be at least as competent at EW as J-16D as a baseline. Yankee points to J-20S as potent of this. He points to the fact that AVIC's display plaque at Zhuhai lists "very strong EW capability" as a J-20S baseline feature. 6th gen is to take this even further. So you need two pilots, even more power generation and even more space to arrange the plane so the EW aspect and stealth aspect don't interfere with each other.
When you then add more fuel for more range, high altitude high speed and supercruise into that mix the plane grows to a size that necessarily requires 3 engines. If you don't want to have 3 engines and willing to instead sacrifice speed then you are building a B-21 and therefore 急了.
When CAC presented the 3 engine design to PLAAF naturally the first question asked was "wouldn't this increase maintenance difficulty" and CAC straight up answered yes, it will, deal with it unless you want a B-21.
Yankee didn't say how much SAC's approach prioritise EW but he did say their solution was indeed built with future CVN in mind, so their version is less radical and more closely resemble what people would have though NGAD would look like. For pilot workload instead of a second person they approach was to install some kind of AI module behind the pilot to assist him. Yankee specified this AI module was the fruit of the earlier Intelligence Victory/智胜 program conducted on that experimental J-16. Shilao likened this module to a R2-D2 unit.
Yankee said given the extremely complex nature of system integration required for 6th gen there's much more work left to do before all the internals are filled with tech wizardry. At the moment both CAC and SAC are busy with making sure their prototypes get the flying part right given for both of them these are new aerodynamic layouts. They both wanted to get the prototype flying first, as both a grudge match between them and as a way to bait USAF to release photos and info of any NGAD prototypes if they exist so they could be studied. Yankee personally thinks no such info is forthcoming not because Americans can resist being baited but because reorganising NGAD to put so much emphasis on CCA is symbol of a project management crisis. Both SAC and CAC prototypes have always been envisioned as being the central piece of a whole system surrounded by CCAs. Shilao amusingly called the central manned platform "主机”(master machine) or “母机”(mother machine).
Anyway Yankee, Shilao and Ayi spent the first 80 minutes setting up history like NGAD, centuary series, last 40 minutes are all about the two prototypes. They recorded the show before news of either of the maiden flight hit the air wave and majority of it is in the context of the CAC prototype. Some new info:
Shilao and Yankee mentioned no less than 3 times the concept that if your 6th gen is a B-21, then you've already lost the game, or in Shilao's words "你已经急了”. Imagine how slow F-35 is and how that affects its air combat capabilities, then imagine your 6th gen is EVEN slower.
Reason for 3 engines has a lot to do with EW. Instead of existing setup of a regular fighter having EW specific version like J-16 and J-16D, PLAAF envisions future fighters to all be at least as competent at EW as J-16D as a baseline. Yankee points to J-20S as potent of this. He points to the fact that AVIC's display plaque at Zhuhai lists "very strong EW capability" as a J-20S baseline feature. 6th gen is to take this even further. So you need two pilots, even more power generation and even more space to arrange the plane so the EW aspect and stealth aspect don't interfere with each other.
When you then add more fuel for more range, high altitude high speed and supercruise into that mix the plane grows to a size that necessarily requires 3 engines. If you don't want to have 3 engines and willing to instead sacrifice speed then you are building a B-21 and therefore 急了.
When CAC presented the 3 engine design to PLAAF naturally the first question asked was "wouldn't this increase maintenance difficulty" and CAC straight up answered yes, it will, deal with it unless you want a B-21.
Yankee didn't say how much SAC's approach prioritise EW but he did say their solution was indeed built with future CVN in mind, so their version is less radical and more closely resemble what people would have though NGAD would look like. For pilot workload instead of a second person they approach was to install some kind of AI module behind the pilot to assist him. Yankee specified this AI module was the fruit of the earlier Intelligence Victory/智胜 program conducted on that experimental J-16. Shilao likened this module to a R2-D2 unit.
Yankee said given the extremely complex nature of system integration required for 6th gen there's much more work left to do before all the internals are filled with tech wizardry. At the moment both CAC and SAC are busy with making sure their prototypes get the flying part right given for both of them these are new aerodynamic layouts. They both wanted to get the prototype flying first, as both a grudge match between them and as a way to bait USAF to release photos and info of any NGAD prototypes if they exist so they could be studied. Yankee personally thinks no such info is forthcoming not because Americans can resist being baited but because reorganising NGAD to put so much emphasis on CCA is symbol of a project management crisis. Both SAC and CAC prototypes have always been envisioned as being the central piece of a whole system surrounded by CCAs. Shilao amusingly called the central manned platform "主机”(master machine) or “母机”(mother machine).
Isnt that basically what I have been explaining to people? You need space and power generation to have just enormous amount of ew and radar and computation power. The RF coming out of this thing will just be so astronomical.
I don’t blame them for waiting on installing the electronics. The longer you wait, the more advanced tech will become available. Just think about the space savings you get from a higher voltage and higher battery density system for example.
Probability is increasing that this thing ships with DEW. The top intake doesn't even look like an engine intake at all.
If it does then it is pretty much an imperial star destroyer…
so Twin Engine configuration ??
Definitely has three engines. What he is suggesting is that the top intake doesn’t feed air to the engines but is used for cooling.
Thinking on it a bit, what are the odds that the middle engine might just be a glorified APU? As in, larger than a regular APU but not big enough to be a full-fat jet engine? I'm speculating because the model at Zhuhai had a large APU at that spot.