BRICS & New World Order Thread

[tphuang]

Because they are incapable to do it on their own? How's building ports and buying solar panels equal to taking over their country? China bought plenty of Western industrial products and continue to do so today at a lessor degree. Has China been taken over?

Why does it matter what they are capable of doing or not capable of doing? They are their own country. They can develop whatever way they want. And they've always been one that's hostile to foreign companies to protect local industries. Regardless of what you think of it, that's their developmental philosophy.

Keep in mind that China also didn't just let foreign companies come in and squash local competitors. You had to share technology on the way in. I would say India is definitely more protectionist than China. However, they are making policies that they think will benefit their local industries. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. Why do they need to copy any other country's policies?

And guess what, most countries don't share China and Russia's goal of forming anti-west alliance. They want to get into BRICS to have their voices heard and to do more business with other global south countries.

 

[TK3600]

Not talking about China's interests.

• India could have bought tons of cheap solar panels and wind turbines from China to increase its power generation capacities.
• India could have bought hydro power generated from Chinese built dams in Nepal.
• India could have let Chinese companies to build ports.
• India could have let Chinese companies to invest in India to build all kinds of goods.
• India could have lower tariffs on Chinese components to build up final assembly plants.

From Indian's POV relying China for development go against their imperial project. Is their imperial project feasible? No. But humans are not rational actors. The examples are countless. I have no doubt India follow their perceived interest, just that perception is objectively wrong, misaligned with their actual interest. If Indians had great grasp of ambition vs reality, they would not fight lopsided war in 1960's vs China. They would not start fight they cannot win in Galwan. They would not try contest China in BRICS.

I will call India out on this, not because they refuse to be Chinese lapdog. It is because they are stupid as shit when it comes to their actual interest.

Speaking of their interest, they are coolimg things with China. So which is their interest? Cool things with China or contest China?

If interest is good relation with China, their previous fight was for nothing, therefore they did not know their interest.

If interest is to fight China, then cooling with China go against it, then they do not know their true interest.

And if their interest is not aligned with BRICS, then they can get resign or justified to get kicked. If they are aligned, then stop acting up!

So here is the thing with India, they are a walking contradiction. You can convince me both sides has a point. But a contradiction is never correct. It is logically impossible.

 

[coolgod]

How can India be snakes and sellouts if it never signed up to your agenda? Even Brazil hasn't signed up to this agenda. At this point, basically China and Russia are trying to win over other countries to their cause. And frankly calling them snakes and sellouts isn't helpful.

BRICS with India is always a hard proposition because China is the obvious leader of this bloc but India doesn't want to take the back seat. And it also has obvious problems with China because it's in China's interests to be a major power in South Asia and India wants to achieve hegemony in South Asia.

So you are in agreement with me and Indian think tankies that India doesn't really belong in BRICS and doesn't want a new world order.

Calling them snakes and sellouts isn't helpful, helpful to who or what? I'm not advocating changing India's stance, and you clearly pointed out from India's point of view BRICS is not useful to them. Is not calling them snakes or sellouts going to entice India to change its selfish geopolitical strategies predicated on selling out the global south to appease the west or something?

Also the title of the thread is literally BRICS & New World Order, I'm focused on talking about how India fit/don't fit in BRICS and the new world order.

 

[vincent]

And guess what, most countries don't share China and Russia's goal of forming anti-west alliance. They want to get into BRICS to have their voices heard and to do more business with other global south countries.

Never said anything about their behaviour in BRICS. My question was whether they got anything out of the West for being anti-China while losing the opportunity to gain from Chinese industrial support.

Why does it matter what they are capable of doing or not capable of doing? They are their own country. They can develop whatever way they want. And they've always been one that's hostile to foreign companies to protect local industries. Regardless of what you think of it, that's their developmental philosophy.

Keep in mind that China also didn't just let foreign companies come in and squash local competitors. You had to share technology on the way in. I would say India is definitely more protectionist than China. However, they are making policies that they think will benefit their local industries. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. Why do they need to copy any other country's policies?

My argument is if they let Chinese companies in, their industries would have developed faster. The Indian government could have forced joint ventures and tech transfers like what China did initially, build up their industrial ecosystem, absorb foreign technologies and eventually develop their own. A tried path that may work for India too. Unfortunately India chose to side with the West and got nothing.

 

[TK3600]

Never said anything about their behaviour in BRICS. My question was whether they got anything out of the West for being anti-China while losing the opportunity to gain from Chinese industrial support.

My argument is if they let Chinese companies in, their industries would have developed faster. The Indian government could have force joint ventures and tech transfers like what China did initially, build up their industrial ecosystem, absorb foreign technologies and eventually develop their own. A tried path that may work for India too. Unfortunately India chose to side with the West and got nothing.

They got sanctioned, got Adani wrecked, lost Bangladesh sphere of influence from a coup. China had to ask comrade America to send a message, so China dont have to.

 

[gelgoog]

India's economy is dependent on services income and remittances from the West. They are compromised like heck.
They have to decide if they want to remain subservient to the West, because they will never be treated as an equal, or try to stand on their own.

 

[tphuang]

So you are in agreement with me and Indian think tankies that India doesn't really belong in BRICS and doesn't want a new world order.

Calling them snakes and sellouts isn't helpful, helpful to who or what? I'm not advocating changing India's stance, and you clearly pointed out from India's point of view BRICS is not useful to them. Is not calling them snakes or sellouts going to entice India to change its selfish geopolitical strategies predicated on selling out the global south to appease the west or something?

Also the title of the thread is literally BRICS & New World Order, I'm focused on talking about how India fit/don't fit in BRICS and the new world order.

I'm saying that they and others have different vision of what they see BRICS as. If China and Russia want to push BRICS in their interest, it isn't a straight forward process.

Never said anything about their behaviour in BRICS. My question was whether they got anything out of the West for being anti-China while losing the opportunity to gain from Chinese industrial support.

My argument is if they let Chinese companies in, their industries would have developed faster. The Indian government could have forced joint ventures and tech transfers like what China did initially, build up their industrial ecosystem, absorb foreign technologies and eventually develop their own. A tried path that may work for India too. Unfortunately India chose to side with the West and got nothing.

The West doesn't have a border dispute with them. Compare China to the West for India isn't straight forward. The best you can hope for in India is that they don't join the Western camp.

You guys really should listen to some Indian geopol videos to see how they think about things.

 

[MortyandRick]

Never said anything about their behaviour in BRICS. My question was whether they got anything out of the West for being anti-China while losing the opportunity to gain from Chinese industrial support.

My argument is if they let Chinese companies in, their industries would have developed faster. The Indian government could have forced joint ventures and tech transfers like what China did initially, build up their industrial ecosystem, absorb foreign technologies and eventually develop their own. A tried path that may work for India too. Unfortunately India chose to side with the West and got nothing.

That would be the smart way of doing it.

I think the Indian government is trying top hard to chase headlines and being ideological in their actions.

If they were smart, they would work with whoever is willing to invest and transfer tech. Make the west and China compete to see who can offer more. But their ideology and chasing headlines prevents them from doing so.

I remember an old quote that someone told me was said by xi Jinping. Not sure if he really said it.

Some one asked Xi before he became president, whether he would push back against the US hegemony. He's reply was something along the lines of "Why would we go against the US or the west when we haven't learned everything we can from them yet!".

Again not sure if he really said that but that's what I was told a decade ago.

I think this line of thinking and action is what separates China from other countries like India.

 

[Quan8410]

People assume countries that are anti-China must be pro-West. That is not true. Look to Soviet Union post-50s. And India is heavily influenced by the Soviet also. China does not win over India and Brazil yet is because China is not strong enough yet. Simple.

 

[gelgoog]

People assume countries that are anti-China must be pro-West. That is not true. Look to Soviet Union post-50s. And India is heavily influenced by the Soviet also. China does not win over India and Brazil yet is because China is not strong enough yet. Simple.

Their animosity towards China is partly because of India's dumbass 'rings' military theory. You are supposed to ally with a neighbour of your neighbour against him.