As you said, India has always worked this way and nothing it does comes as a surprise, so anything BRICS organization does it already took this into account.
BRICS & New World Order Thread
- Thread starter Strangelove
- Start date
TRANSLATION: India wants all the benefits and privileges of being a BRICS member but none of its actual obligations and responsibilities. The same can be applied to its membership with the QUAD, G20, and other western led institutions lest it's granted undue, undeserved authority in shaping, molding, and ultimately controlling the direction of all multilateral organizations.
Such Jai Hind mindset is anathema to good governance and proper cooperation. Their delusions of grandeur is both their trait and biggest achilles heel for achieving lofty ambitions. Imagine, the audacious statement that China is not a part nor a member of the Global South? What benefits have they brought to the global south countries? Have they provided competing investments, build up of much needed infrastructures for development in the countries they self-declared to lead? Who the flying f... appointed them to be the leader of the global south? Was there any vote that appointed them as such?
It is rather unfortunate and quite maddening to read these dunderheads keep on proving their doubters wright time and time again, leaving people that try to be neutral and optimistic on a possible Sino-Indian relationship feeling exhausted and exasperated.
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To be fair, thats true from a factual pov. Unless you redefine global south as "literally anyone standing against US axis, regardless of social/economic development, politics, geographical location".
By the same logic as China being global south solely by the merit of being against US, then a hypothetical EU which opposes US would also be global south... At that point the whole descriptor of global south is made invalid because it's far too broad.
China is still the biggest beneficiary and influencer of the global south though, so it doesn't change anything geopolitically.
How is China not part of the global south? Are successful countries automatically excluded from the global south now? When you eliminate absolute poverty are you no longer part of the club? The global south isn't a poverty club you know.
What is the definition of global south then?
Most traditional definitions I've seen at least demands middle income or below status, which yeah do make them a poverty club. And excludes industrialized advanced economies regardless of geographical location.
By your logic the the concept of global south solidarity doesn't even make any sense since every member of the global south wants to escape this poverty club.
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Combining the Great Strength of the Global South to Build Together a Community with a Shared Future for Mankind
Xi gave this speech at the BRICS summit six days ago, though I suppose you could interpret Xi's message as meaning China might not be part of the global south anymore.
It makes political sense for China to appeal to solidarity with global south, but according to the historical definition of the term, a high income advanced economy making up a majority of global industrial and scientific advances essentially violates every criteria point, especially since China isn't even geographically south either.
Japan and SK are considered global north, and besides attitude to US, smaller size and having worse work life balance, there's nothing (development wise) that sets them apart from China.
Global south has for me always been an unclear term, as China would simply be global north if it had a positive attitude to US. The lack of clarity is by design, because the unclearness of the term means a large umbrella of potentially pro-China and anti-US can be gathered.
But that's basically the real job of "global south", the quiet part nobody says out loud is that it's nations that stand to benefit from and may assist in carving up the opposing US sphere.
In Mao's definition of the world order, there are three worlds, the first world is the west centered around USA, the second is the countries around USSR, the rest is the third world which includes China who was poor. Mao did not include economy status in his theory though. China was and is active in promoting "south south cooperation" (南南合作). In this discourse China equates south with third world. So in conclusion, China defines south and third world being interchangable and economy development stage is unrelated. Even when China's economy surpass USA in the future, China remains in the same camp regardless wording, this was reaffirmed by Deng Xiaoping.
Also remember, "three worlds" was not invented by Mao, so among other definitions China may be 2nd world or even 1st world if economy is the defination. However, since we are talking about China's position, world view and orientation, it has to be China's definition being used. It is like talking about "marriage" among Chinese.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
You don't think the US's $1.6 billion anti-China propaganda campaign isn't going to paying Indian journalists for the cheap...? All you need to know is China and Russia are the lynchpins of BRICS and the rest of world wants to make more money than the West is willing to cough up. India again is trying to act like they're the key to everything good in the future. In this case, they're the ones leading the global south, who have all the resources the West needs to keep their economic engines going. If that were the case they would be making less money preferring the West. The West wants to think people around the world see them so much in awe with an angelic aura around them that they're like a shiny object that uncontrollably draws people to them... like a moth to a flame. The West doesn't want to let go of that believing it's true because it confirms their natural supremacy to themselves and it'll be their undoing.
It's simple... If the US and the West had the money, they would do what they've always been doing which is bribing everyone to side to them. It says a lot how they can't. In all the years of US propaganda they want everyone to believe China doesn't buy anything from anyone else. If that was the case, the global south would be following the West. If that was the case, Europe wouldn't be demanding China not retaliate in trade using tariffs hurting the money they're making from China. The US wouldn't be crying over how China isn't buying something as simple as their soy and corn. China being able to easily buy it from other countries and not the US says how important it is when China can choose who to buy from. Does the self-anointed leader of the global south. India, think they have the power to command Brazil not to sell those things to China for the US?
There doesn't need to be any organization called BRICS for China because all those countries that would form BRICS still want to sell to China without the name. No one is going to be abandoning the Yuan when it's better than having to pay the US for just using the dollar in transaction fees. How does India stop that? India wants to exclude the Yuan which will more like isolate the Rupee even more. The Russians are reluctant to use the Rupee because what can it buy with it? China can make everything the West can and the West can't even do that themselves now. That's why the US can't even decouple with China as threatened. They go to China because it's the cheapest to manufacture there. Go to another country as an alternative and it'll be still more expensive or they would've already been there if it weren't. China already knows how to make it so what's to stop China from putting it out their cheaper alternative? Anything China can't make meaning also no alternative to China can make it either, it will be so expensive that they can't make a profit from it.
That's why the US is stuck dealing with China. The West is so weak where they need China to go along with them in order to control the world. And that's the rub why they hate China. They need the Chinese consumer market and China's manufacturing capabilities in order to control the world. They can't do it without China. The only alternative they have is to go to war with China so they can take over and have those things from China for themselves. But then they'll get nuked if they try. That's why they're too scared to use that option because for one it's not a sure thing they'll win especially when winning means they have to suffer very little from it. What are the chances...?
It's simple... If the US and the West had the money, they would do what they've always been doing which is bribing everyone to side to them. It says a lot how they can't. In all the years of US propaganda they want everyone to believe China doesn't buy anything from anyone else. If that was the case, the global south would be following the West. If that was the case, Europe wouldn't be demanding China not retaliate in trade using tariffs hurting the money they're making from China. The US wouldn't be crying over how China isn't buying something as simple as their soy and corn. China being able to easily buy it from other countries and not the US says how important it is when China can choose who to buy from. Does the self-anointed leader of the global south. India, think they have the power to command Brazil not to sell those things to China for the US?
There doesn't need to be any organization called BRICS for China because all those countries that would form BRICS still want to sell to China without the name. No one is going to be abandoning the Yuan when it's better than having to pay the US for just using the dollar in transaction fees. How does India stop that? India wants to exclude the Yuan which will more like isolate the Rupee even more. The Russians are reluctant to use the Rupee because what can it buy with it? China can make everything the West can and the West can't even do that themselves now. That's why the US can't even decouple with China as threatened. They go to China because it's the cheapest to manufacture there. Go to another country as an alternative and it'll be still more expensive or they would've already been there if it weren't. China already knows how to make it so what's to stop China from putting it out their cheaper alternative? Anything China can't make meaning also no alternative to China can make it either, it will be so expensive that they can't make a profit from it.
That's why the US is stuck dealing with China. The West is so weak where they need China to go along with them in order to control the world. And that's the rub why they hate China. They need the Chinese consumer market and China's manufacturing capabilities in order to control the world. They can't do it without China. The only alternative they have is to go to war with China so they can take over and have those things from China for themselves. But then they'll get nuked if they try. That's why they're too scared to use that option because for one it's not a sure thing they'll win especially when winning means they have to suffer very little from it. What are the chances...?
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Indians are not snakes nor sellout.
Think about India's moves from India's self interest point of view. Are these things logical for India?
if they are not, then don't expect them to follow you along.
If we only this forum constantly complain that people don't understand China's POV, then maybe we should try to understand other countries motives also.
If you say that India's interests are entirely unaligned with BRICS and they should be marginalized. That's fine. But I don't really see why they should necessarily follow along with China and Russia's agenda.
If you want India to go along with your interests, then you need to spend more time convincing India that America will continue to mess with their interest in South Asia and that they should keep America at two arms length.
Think about India's moves from India's self interest point of view. Are these things logical for India?
if they are not, then don't expect them to follow you along.
If we only this forum constantly complain that people don't understand China's POV, then maybe we should try to understand other countries motives also.
If you say that India's interests are entirely unaligned with BRICS and they should be marginalized. That's fine. But I don't really see why they should necessarily follow along with China and Russia's agenda.
If you want India to go along with your interests, then you need to spend more time convincing India that America will continue to mess with their interest in South Asia and that they should keep America at two arms length.