Bhutan: Dangerous liaison

Jura said:

in order to please the audience of the vid which can be still played through (I now checked)
#225 Hendrik_2000, Aug 17, 2017

with views like this:

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So? what is the problem? I am asking a serious question because there are much more of such kind of news, movies, sayings etc. about China, not only in India but mostly in and started from the west.

To justify this Chinese vid as an issue that deserves anyone's attention, everyone must face the much prevalent issue I mentioned above.

I personally is against any behavior demonstrated in this kind of vid and will not practice it myself, but I (and believe most Chinese) will not do anything about it. The bottom line is if someone did wrong to me in the first place, I reserve the right to do "wrong" in return. It is called "two way lane", "feed one's own medicine" which is the best cure for the kind of disease. Action always cause reaction, simple physical law.

Orthan said:

China didnt told india to move, both sides agreed to move out. Just because india agreed that china to patrol that area doesnt mean that they recognize it as chinese territory. This spat was about the road construction. Nice excuse about the winter. it gave china more face saving than india.



No, those troops are no longer there and the road wont be built anymore. In fact the chinese government hasnt confirm if the road will be built or not. See this news article.

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now, it is your words against Chinese MoF, who should we believe? I know you and some others will not believe Chinese MoF as always, but what gives you the more credibility for people to believe?

Were you in contact with the Indian government? Did their foreign ministry tell you that they can not see Chinese soldiers there? "Disengagement" is the only official words from India and it means the two sides have no physical contacts (the body to body holding as we see in the photos and videos), it is just that.

Road won't be built anymore? You wish.
Anyone who is going to do construction work at over 4000 meters in a freezing blizzard 30 or 40 degrees below zero is either mad or god, not human. And that is going to be the weather in the coming months. I bet you won't do that either even if you are triple paid.

"anymore"? Isn't it too early to say that? "anymore" means "forever", how can anyone say never ever?

It all looks like Diaoyu island 2.0, or Huangyan Dao 2.0. "I am not always here => I am here to stay".

The good: no shooting. And the "no shooting" approach could be a good example for everyone for the future.

I will make a prediction here: After BRIC summit, Indian news may say that this specific issue was talked between Modi and Xi, while there will not be any mention in Chinese news of it except some slogan of peaceful coexistence.

Orthan said:

China didnt told india to move, both sides agreed to move out. Just because india agreed that china to patrol that area doesnt mean that they recognize it as chinese territory. This spat was about the road construction. Nice excuse about the winter. it gave china more face saving than india.



No, those troops are no longer there and the road wont be built anymore. In fact the chinese government hasnt confirm if the road will be built or not. See this news article.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

I understand you told me before that English is not your native language, but if you have THIS much trouble with English, then you shouldn't be on an English forum.

I'm gonna try to make the English as simple as possible, just for you, K? India says what India does. China can say what China does. USA can say what USA does, etc... They don't speak for others, just for themselves. There is no reason for you to get your news on what everybody in the world is doing from Indian news, the same news that says the US is secretly scared of India's military and that bathing in cow urine can cure cancer/AIDS/everything. The only reason you'd pick that as an authority is if that is the only "news" that's saying what you want to hear. So let's look at what everyone says:

So far, all Indian news say India has moved out. Chinese news agrees; world news agrees. No problem. But Indian news say Chinese troops have moved out, yet they say there are still ongoing patrols. That means they can't even get their own story straight. Then China confirms that Chinese troops are still there; world news agrees that they are still patrolling (hence they are still there). If you still think that both sides all moved out, then either your English is shit or you're just picking what you want to believe and ignoring logic. If you want to convince anyone here that Chinese troops are gone, please find a Chinese source that says China removed its troops.

Same thing with the road. I don't care what India has to say about Chinese building; they have no control. China says they alone decide whether the road will be built. India has no answer, no document to say otherwise, because China signed nothing and gave them no concessions. The end.

Look at all these good people trying to educate your pig head. Do you enjoy getting buried again every time you parrot the same stupid shit over? This isn't the masochist forum, Orthan.

Orthan said:

China didnt told india to move, both sides agreed to move out. Just because india agreed that china to patrol that area doesnt mean that they recognize it as chinese territory. This spat was about the road construction. Nice excuse about the winter. it gave china more face saving than india.



No, those troops are no longer there and the road wont be built anymore. In fact the chinese government hasnt confirm if the road will be built or not. See this news article.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

Economic times is not quoting anyone on the record from the Indian govt that's saying Chinese troops have left.

OTOH China's FM has said on the record that their troops are still there.

You can make up your own mind as to what the likely situation is based on the confidence of each side's claims.


As for constructing the road, let's put it this way -- the Chinese govt's statement leaves open the possibility that there will be construction in future. If China had agreed to not build the road in future, Hua would likely not have been allowed to allude to future construction.

Similarly, if China had agreed to not construct the road there in the future, you would think we would have heard that alluded to by the Indian govt. Yet as far as I can see they have not made any claims as to whether China will continue to build a road there in future.

Bltizo said:

Economic times is not quoting anyone on the record from the Indian govt that's saying Chinese troops have left.

OTOH China's FM has said on the record that their troops are still there.

You can make up your own mind as to what the likely situation is based on the confidence of each side's claims.


As for constructing the road, let's put it this way -- the Chinese govt's statement leaves open the possibility that there will be construction in future. If China had agreed to not build the road in future, Hua would likely not have been allowed to allude to future construction.

Similarly, if China had agreed to not construct the road there in the future, you would think we would have heard that alluded to by the Indian govt. Yet as far as I can see they have not made any claims as to whether China will continue to build a road there in future.

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Im confused, the dust has barely settled after the departing footsteps of the Indian soilders and we immediately start debating who won.
I thought China's bottom line required India to pull her troops back to her LAC before there was any talks about the road construction.
As for India's bottom line, .. I don't know. Over the last few weeks, I have read so many Eds., OP's from the Indian side, I have come to the conclusion that India has more bottom lines than a hundred-year-old elephant.

B.I.B. said:

Im confused, the dust has barely settled after the departing footsteps of the Indian soilders and we immediately start debating who won.
I thought China's bottom line required India to pull her troops back to her LAC before there was any talks about the road construction.
As for India's bottom line, .. I don't know. Over the last few weeks, I have read so many Eds., OP's from the Indian side, I have come to the conclusion that India has more bottom lines than a hundred-year-old elephant.

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China's bottom line was like so

On your second question, we have said multiple times that the facts and nature of the incident on the Sikkim section of the China-India boundary is very clear, which is that the Indian border troops illegally trespassed into China's territory. We keep saying that the diplomatic channels between China and India are unimpeded, but we also reiterate that the withdrawal of Indian border troops who illegally crossed into China's territory is the prerequisite and basis for any meaningful dialogue between the two sides.

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I'm not sure who won or even if there is a winner in this case, but I do think those who are loudly saying one side or the other has "definitely" won are being a bit silly.

It's China move first to build road ("disputed" territory or not). In that perspective, China did not get what it wanted, for now. Like many people indicated, it may come back, or it may not.
At India's perspective, it did "halt" China's initiative, for now. So, yes, you can call India got what it wanted -- I tend to agree that world will look at this way.
While yelling around is not so wise, the real fool is the one who think game had finished, when just one small pawn is down. We need to see who laugh at last.

The following paragraph is from the initial article in the opening post of this thread. For some reason, the part I changed to boldface never entered into the discussion.

Located in northwest Bhutan, Doklam is an inaccessible piece of strategic real estate. The crisis erupted after China started building a paved road, which can carry vehicles up to 40 tonnes, in the region. It would have linked Bhutan with Tibet and threatened the vulnerable Siliguri corridor.

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India is clearly fretting about Bhutan's loyalties, and one can see this from the same article that this has been evolving for a while:

Bhutanese government sources confirmed that the country, which once shared a special and exclusive relationship with India, was widening its diplomatic outreach. It now has diplomatic ties with 53 countries and is in the process of establishing ties with more.

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Although I don't know where this road is headed to, it seems India thought it was going to be the China-Bhutan expressway. I would wager this is what prompted India to act, as in, maybe we can block this until the Fall, and then we have 6 more months to win them back.

But the process is too far along, and the Indian gambit had the opposite effect. Maybe that's why they backed down?

Diplomatic relations are not necessary for trade, and both China and Taiwan trade with many countries with which they have no diplomatic relations.

As to the road, if its endpoint was really Bhutan, it will definitely be built, and soon. If it is meant for the border troops alone (as the spokeswoman implied), then construction will correspond to their needs... and a road to Bhutan will be built elsewhere.