AWACS for future chinese carrier

I don't think we will see any AWACS based on the V-22 look like the E-2 or E-3 with the large dome on top. The recent trend, as shown in the Boeing Wedgetail and Erickson Erieye, is a beam on top of the airplane as the technology has advanced to a point where the electronics have shrunk, and there is less of a need for a mechanically scanned array.

I am notorious in amazing ideas:
what do you think about a derivate of this plane?

The famous DO-31 is a VSTOL transport plane (for sure could use sky ramp to), developed from german Dornier-company.
(see: + )

Only two birds was build as I know. One of them is to visit in the "Deutsches Museum", near munich, the other was visible at the company area in "Oberpaffenhofen". Last week I was there and missed this plane.


In 2001 Wu Bangguo visited the factory and in 2003 the chinese D’Long International Strategic Investment and XAC (Xian Aircraft Manufactoring Corp) captured the Dornier company including the Dornier 728-programe - why not taking blue prints of this plane to?
Spannweite 18,0 m wiggspan /
Startmasse 21 000 kg (bei Senkrechtstart) take of wight (VTO)
Höchstgeschwindigkeit 710 km/h in 2500 m speed max/
Reichweite 1800 km range
Antrieb 2 x Bristol-Siddeley Pegasus (Hub- und Marschtriebwerke) normal engines
8 x Rolls-Royce RB 162 (Hubtriebwerke) VTOL engines
Schub 2 x 68,0 kN thrust normal engines
8 x 19,6 kN thrust VTOL engines

bd popeye said:

Ospreys have been deployed to Iraq. The Osprey has been certified to operate off of LHA/LHDs for over three years now. If you have ever been on a flight deck ..trust me it is windy.

The V-22 folds up nicely thank you. Slightly smaller than a folded CH-53.

Jeff Head has a link to an AEW version of the Osprey.

[qimg]http://www.dezh.de/imghosting/bd9e0f495367cd50227f4ee1f70e3349.jpg[/qimg]

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The Osprey has a long history of being more unstable in windy conditions for VTOL than helicopters. It is well-documented that the US marines are not 100% behind it until the Osprey continues to improve. I believe the US will make the Osprey a reliable design but at a high cost.

If you look closely, you'll notice that the Osprey rotates its wings to make it space efficient. It also folds its propellers, but the main space saving feature is the rotating wings. The Osprey does NOT fold its wings.

The Osprey can use more compact AEW technology to greatly minimize making major redesigns to the Osprey, but the Osprey will be at a disadvantage against a AEW plane with a large radar housed in a radome assuming everything is equal.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Osprey because it could possibly seamlessly combine VTOL of helicopters and flight of planes, but it is a very complex technology that still needs more improvements and more money, especially if it is going to be used for AEW.

I think it is obvious China is going to go for a conventional layout (folding wings, but NO rotatingwings) for their naval AWACS plane for the better value. Only much later on will China adopt Osprey's helicopter-plane features.

ffInfra_Man99, You are certainly entitled your opinion. I do not know if the Ospreys problems have been all solved.

But I do know, once again, the USN/USMC & USAF have certified the Osprey safe for flight. Despite it's long history of all sorts of trouble.

As I type this another detatchment of USMC Ospreys is being rotated to Iraq to relieve the detatchment already deployed..ff

I really think this is off topic and I apoligize for carring this on. I will end my part of this ff discussion right here.

I wonder if an airship AWACS will work for the navy? Any idea...?

kenvui65 said:

I wonder if an airship AWACS will work for the navy? Any idea...?

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Not in my opinion. An airship is to large and to slow..making it a great target.

kenvui65 said:

I wonder if an airship AWACS will work for the navy? Any idea...?

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Well an airship doesn't necessarily have to have many metal parts which could help with stealth and make it more survivable but the main problem is that I don't think it could keep up with the fleet, and certainly not with fighter aircraft if that was required in a situation.

Finn McCool said:

Well an airship doesn't necessarily have to have many metal parts which could help with stealth and make it more survivable but the main problem is that I don't think it could keep up with the fleet, and certainly not with fighter aircraft if that was required in a situation.

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Good points! In addition where will it be based? If the CVSG(Carrier strike Group) deploys you need a foward base..something the PLAN sorely lacks.

ffSpeaking of carriers..A TV program named "Carriers" all about the USS Nimitz airs tonite on PBS(Public Broadcast System) in the US. Don't miss it!! True insight on the crew and inter workings of a CVN!

ff

An airship based AEW platform could be based aboard an auxilliary, eg a replenishment vessel with helo facilities provided the flight deck was large enough, as such it could keep within reach of the CVSG. Most airships around today have enough speed to patrol ahead of any warship but transit time to it's patrol area is far from ideal. It wouldn't have to keep pace with the fighters as they go ahead to investigate contacts and the airship would necessarily hang back out of harms way. American E-2s likewise stay out of harms way as much as possible , hence the need for long range radars. If an enemy aircraft gets within missile firing range of an AEW platform then something has gone seriously wrong somewhere, as it should be able to vector it's own fighters on to the threat long before it is in danger itself.

Having said that, I believe a ship based aircraft solution to AEW is best, and as a first step an exsisting aircraft design should be adapted, ie a twin turboprop preferrably with a degree of STOL performance. It doesn't have to be large, or even comparable in size to the Hawkeye necessarily, as it would be a first step to provide a degree of AEW cover to the fleet (which will always be better than no cover at all). A light STOL turboprop aircraft which could operate from a STOBAR carrier like Varyag without catapult assitance to launch (taking off from the angled deck, as propeller aircraft aren't usually considered suitable for ski jump launches) would be my first choice for this problem, which could then lead to something more substantial later on.

I am thinking the PLAN will use helicopter-based AEW assets first to familiarize themselves with the tactics. They can either purchase the Kamov Ka-31 AEW from Russia, or develop their own based off the Z-8 platform.

From there, if the Chinese choose to pursue a true fleet carrier, they can develop a family of aircraft that can be modified for fixed wing ASW, AEW, and COD. They do need to develop the tactics and the experience of operating one off a carrier though.