AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oh, my comment about China having permanent physical presence/access in the Indian Ocean is not only about AUKUS.

Nevermind AUKUS, even if everything was peaceful, China still has national interests in keeping that lifeline open. Physical presence there is not option, it is a necessity. China cannot be kept hostage everytime someone wants to blockade trade. And China also doesn't want to depend on other countries for keeping the sea trade lane open.

The only solution is for China to have permanent land there. How this will be done, is up to the Chinese leaders
Before you put boots on the ground, you have to think about how to support them, through logistics and power projection platforms. Otherwise, dudes on some far flung outpost are just MEAT.

The best case scenario for PRC is to outcompete the Americans and pull the rug out from their high margins business. Devoid of tax revenue and foreign infusions, there might be a day the locals actually cast out the fat and happy useless tenant and open to new lease.

I for one, am against foreign military bases. I was station in Area 1 in ROK years ago. The shit-fest outside the gates with Filipina and Russians had a distinct stink of occupation. Back then, 2LTs had to stand at the gates and made sure dudes don't go out looks like jackasses. There will invariably Texans heading out looking like some extras from gunfight movie, infused with an air of superiority.

Like this:
1632144537661.png

The point being, that once you base people there, 20 year dudes will be 20 year old dude, and there will be incidents.

1632144092124.png

1632144185459.png

1632144207789.png

BTW, did you know that Itaewon's moniker came from abortions?
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"The name Itaewon was originally derived from the name of an inn located there during the
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. Today it's called Itaewon alluding to its abundance of pear trees (梨泰院).(
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) According to a historical record, the name was also written using different
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characters that alluded to foreign babies (異胎院)."


Sure, it was due to rape by Japanese troops during the Joseon Dynasty, but it remain where the red light district is, just beyond Dragon Hill.

What would work (better) for China is to capitalize on its cultural advantage over the Americans (in physical traits and culture), as well as the entrepreneurial nature of Asians to foster more business relations, more expats/immigration and marriages.

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Some would bring up prior race riots and toxic history, but those incident can also be attributed to the legacy of the USD system, the so call "middle income trap". As you raise the living standards in the neighborhood, the level of hate will likely abate.

The problem here is that the Anglos are actively encouraging friction between the locals and the China (both expats and PRC).

The question is what come first? The fall the the empire and their ability to stir shit up leading to SE Asian crisis, or the economic ligaments of trust fostered by decades of relationships. I don't have an answer.

Fundamentally, I want to stress that PRC need not play the Anglos game of foreign basing. The Anglos had to play that because of their military technological advantage and lack of affinity in culture and heritage.

It might be better for multi week/month exchange exercises where the Thai troops work with PLA in China, and then PLA returning the favor the next year.
 
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steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
Before you put boots on the ground, you have to think about how to support them, through logistics and power projection platforms. Otherwise, dudes on some far flung outpost are just MEAT.

The best case scenario for PRC is to outcompete the Americans and pull the rug out from their high margins business. Devoid of tax revenue and foreign infusions, there might be a day the locals actually cast out the fat and happy useless tenant and open to new lease.

I for one, am against foreign military bases. I was station in Area 1 in ROK years ago. The shit-fest outside the gates with Filipina and Russians had a distinct stink of occupation. Back then, 2LTs had to stand at the gates and made sure dudes don't go out looks like jackasses. There will invariably Texans heading out looking like some extras from gunfight movie, infused with an air of superiority.

Like this:
View attachment 77329

The point being, that once you base people there, 20 year dudes will be 20 year old dude, and there will be incidents.

View attachment 77326

View attachment 77327

View attachment 77328

BTW, did you know that Itaewon's moniker came from abortions?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"The name Itaewon was originally derived from the name of an inn located there during the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Today it's called Itaewon alluding to its abundance of pear trees (梨泰院).(
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) According to a historical record, the name was also written using different
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
characters that alluded to foreign babies (異胎院)."


Sure, it was due to rape by Japanese troops during the Joseon Dynasty, but it remain where the red light district is, just beyond Dragon Hill.

What would work (better) for China is to capitalize on its cultural advantage over the Americans (in physical traits and culture), as well as the entrepreneurial nature of Asians to foster more business relations, more expats/immigration and marriages.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some would bring up prior race riots and toxic history, but those incident can also be attributed to the legacy of the USD system, the so call "middle income trap". As you raise the living standards in the neighborhood, the level of hate will likely abate.

The problem here is that the Anglos are actively encouraging friction between the locals and the China (both expats and PRC).

The question is what come first? The fall the the empire and their ability to stir shit up leading to SE Asian crisis, or the economic ligaments of trust fostered by decades of relationships. I don't have an answer.

Fundamentally, I want to stress that PRC need not play the Anglos game of foreign basing. The Anglos had to play that because of their military technological advantage and lack of affinity in culture and heritage.

It might be better for multi week/month exchange exercises where the Thai troops work with PLA in China, and then PLA returning the favor the next year.
The key here is to at least treat them as peers and colleagues. Sure, the food and housing is better for the visiting forces than what the Thais or Cambodians can afford to accommodate the PLA troops when they visit, but that's part of the charm and influence.

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Oh, another thing that goes a long way is to further open professional limitary education to neighbors.

A lot discipline issues comes form junior enlisted, so working with junior officers (O3) and young field grades (O4-O5), could mitigate some concerns.

PRC can open PME (primary military education) to junior officers and senior enlisted (E6+).

You can host their entire family on base, and help establish family and ties, in their daily lives and classroom environment.

Further, PRC can also open up civilian graduate schools, such as CEIBS, Peking and Tsinghua MBA and MPA programs to qualified field grade officers. Pay for the room and board, and might as throw in flight on China Eastern as well.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
I find it terribly amusing how in a lot of news sites, forums and the like, the americans are pushing this narrative that the French had it coming and that the nuclear submarines is an overall deal and will, somehow, be faster to procure.

Somehow Australia, who has no doctrine on nuclear submarines nor experience in the matter, will induct new nuclear submarines faster into service than conventional ones.

This is usually comes with the assumption that China has no way to counter this, completely ignoring the existence of the new building halls or that China has had SSN's for a while now.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I suspect Indonesia got screwed playing both sides, just sign up for 2 frigates with the British and the submarine deal came

It's a disaster for Indonesia.

Any military forces based in Australia have to cross internal Indonesian waters to get to the South China Seas or China.

Indonesia is an island archipelago, so if Australian/US military forces cross Indonesia territory, Indonesia will become a war zone as China responds. Perhaps Indonesia should cancel the Frigate deal with the UK?

As for Malaysia, East Malaysia and West Malaysia with the South China Seas between them.
Again, if there is a war zone in the South China Seas, then the 2 parts of Malaysia will be separated.
 

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
It will definitely trigger the naval arms race in the region,Indonesia and Malaysia will seek to boost their submarine fleet as well as ASW capability.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
It will definitely trigger the naval arms race in the region,Indonesia and Malaysia will seek to boost their submarine fleet as well as ASW capability.

Well, the submarines will take 20 years for the 1st delivery.
It's the bombers and surface ships based in Australia which are a bigger issue.

But yes, Indonesia and Malaysia will beef up their military forces to dissuade the US/Australia from using their territory for a war against China.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
US/UK reactors use HEU (weapon grade). So they will have problem on fulfilling the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. This can be a PR disaster.
Nuclear propulsion is not against the NPT.

However, this does set a precedent for a non-nuclear power and opens the doors for other major players like Japan and S. Korea (and even Canada) to go nuclear with their submarines.
 
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nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
First, Japan and SK’a silence on this announcement is deafening. They above all others would be most directly affected by this move, being so dependent on US military protection. If they had not been invited to the alliance, then they would be very concerned by this announcement as it would suggest that the US is shifting away from its commitments to them. Their silence means that this announcement did not come as a surprise, and if the Americans did already approach them about this alliance, then it’s almost certain that the Americans would have done so to invite them to join, but were turned down.
Japan's foreign minister wasted no time to personally express his welcome to AUKUS:
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Singapore too welcomed the agreement.
 
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