AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
They didn't factor in that Malaysia and Indonesia would view it as a threat. Why? I'd just say there's Southeast Asian stereotypes in these countries and it's not implausible for older politicians to hold such beliefs.

Singapore will be in a very difficult position if Indonesia, Malaysia and China all turn against Singapore.

Hence Singapore is going to have to be scrupulously neutral in a crisis.

Indonesia and Malaysia will not be happy at US-Australian bombers and ships making their internal waters a war zone.
 
Last edited:

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
US and UK subs use weapon grade enriched uranium,in theory Australia could take the uranium out from sub to use them make nuclear weapons.

Also IAEA enforce NPT rules by routinely send people to check nuclear stockpile and reactors,nuclear sub is not subject to monitor by current NTP regulations,so that is an obvious loophole which will be exploited at some time if more countries follow the Australia suit


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Its a good article explaining the serious implications this AUKUS nuclear submarine could do to the NPT.

Here are some notable quotes:
The United States and UK operate naval reactors in their submarines that are fueled with 93.5 percent enriched uranium (civilian power plants are typically fueled with three to five percent uranium-235) in quantities sufficient to last for the lifetime of their ships (33 years for attack submarines).
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to LEU fuel, the United States and UK have no alternative fuel to offer.
This means. That Australia would need to fuel those 8 nuclear submarines with weapons grade HEU, and tons of them. It could either be imported from the US, UK, or made in Australia with their own uranium, but it doesn't matter. This is a blatant disregard of the NPT. Having tons of weapons grade HEU in the Australian inventory is just not gonna make China and ASEAN feel secure. It blurs the line between a nuclear and non-nuclear state.

One can only imagine the drops of sweat trickling down the neck of the International Atomic Energy Agency leadership in Vienna when an Australian delegation comes knocking at its door bringing the good news. The agency, which is currently battling to prevent Iran from acquiring enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon—25 kilograms (0.025 ton) of HEU according to the internationally agreed standard—will have to figure out how to monitor and account for 100 to 200 times that amount without gaining access to secret naval reactor design information. Managing that feat while keeping its credibility intact will be difficult to pull off.
Exactly. The IAEA is already working so hard to not allow Iran to just have more than 25kg of HEU. Then the US, and UK just ignores the NPT and can setup a HEU fuel cycle for Australia. It won't be just 25kg, but tons of HEU that the IAEA needs to monitor. Not to mention that naval nuclear reactors are military secrets. Either the IAEA will be powerless to monitor the usage of Australian HEU. Or the US and UK needs to reveal its naval nuclear reactor designs for the IAEA to inspect, which is totally not happening. If Australia decides to be naughty and siphons out some amount of HEU from its nuclear submarine fuel cycle, it would be practically impossible to audit this without knowing the reactor design.

Other than that, what then would Iran and North Korea have to say with regards to this blatant NPT double standards?

What could happen if AUKUS moves forward? France clearly feels “
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
” by its Anglo-Saxon allies and angered to the unimaginable point of cancelling a gala celebrating the 240th anniversary of the Revolutionary War Battle of the Capes during America’s war of independence. In response, the French could relax their position on not transferring naval reactor technology to Brazil as part of helping the country build its first nuclear attack submarine. South Korea just successfully launched a ballistic missile from a conventional submarine and recently floated the idea of starting a nuclear submarine program in response to growing nuclear threats from North Korea. Seoul could now ask the United States or other nations for an arrangement similar to Australia’s.

Russia could begin new naval reactor cooperation with China to boost China’s submarine capabilities
in response to the AUKUS announcement. India and Pakistan, which already have nuclear weapons, could benefit from international transfers as well, possibly from France and China respectively. Iran, of course, has already expressed interest in enriching uranium to HEU levels to pursue a submarine program.
As China had mentioned. This AUKUS deal could potentially set off a 'nuclear submarine craze'. SK, NK, Japan, Pakistan, and Iran can now covet buying nuclear submarine technology. India and China can also consider buying nuclear propulsion technology from France and Russia respectively. Who can say no to those things when the AUKUS so blatantly disregards the NPT? If the AUKUS nuclear sub deal actually materializes, then the US, UK and Australia have opened up their own NPT Pandora's Box.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
As China had mentioned. This AUKUS deal could potentially set off a 'nuclear submarine craze'. SK, NK, Japan, Pakistan, and Iran can now covet buying nuclear submarine technology. India and China can also consider buying nuclear propulsion technology from France and Russia respectively. Who can say no to those things when the AUKUS so blatantly disregards the NPT? If the AUKUS nuclear sub deal actually materializes, then the US, UK and Australia have opened up their own NPT Pandora's Box.
China shouldn't buy anything from Russia except helicopters. Being forced to buy an important asset like SSN means admitting you are a political junior partner with a tiny GDP and weak military unworthy of respect and that needs others to lift you up like IND or AUS. It would be the ultimate humiliation for the PLAN.

The only possible case is if Russia also makes a strategic purchase from China, such as buying a 003 carrier.

Some countries are actually like that, so they buy. But China isn't. China builds.
 

lcloo

Captain
Australia is making a very big mistake which most of us are awared of, but their support for their ex-colonial master UK, and the US are deeply inplanted in their politicans mind. May be their national flag keep reminding them time and again who their queen is and which country their white European forefathers came from.

It is laughable to hear the Aussie prime minister to claim China as a threat to their national security,and the need to protect the lives of Autralians from military attacks. He is just parroting Biden and Trump's anti-China talks, and you may call Australia US's best ally/side-kick/lapdog.

A possible explaination for having such behaviour could be Australia's feel of insecurity as an "Europen country" in Asia. China is too big and powerful, Indonesia is a potential threat, so playing the role of obedient servant to US is the only way to ensure US's protection.

But seriously, is Australia under any military threat? May be the memory of Imperial Japanese attacks on Darwin and Sydney harbour in WW2 still imprinted deep in their mind.
 

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
Australia is making a very big mistake which most of us are awared of, but their support for their ex-colonial master UK, and the US are deeply inplanted in their politicans mind. May be their national flag keep reminding them time and again who their queen is and which country their white European forefathers came from.

It is laughable to hear the Aussie prime minister to claim China as a threat to their national security,and the need to protect the lives of Autralians from military attacks. He is just parroting Biden and Trump's anti-China talks, and you may call Australia US's best ally/side-kick/lapdog.

A possible explaination for having such behaviour could be Australia's feel of insecurity as an "Europen country" in Asia. China is too big and powerful, Indonesia is a potential threat, so playing the role of obedient servant to US is the only way to ensure US's protection.

But seriously, is Australia under any military threat? May be the memory of Imperial Japanese attacks on Darwin and Sydney harbour in WW2 still imprinted deep in their mind.
Self fulfilling prophecy come true, if it wasnt before it is now... sooner or later after China takes TW, one day Down South has it coming too
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
Australia is making a very big mistake which most of us are awared of, but their support for their ex-colonial master UK, and the US are deeply inplanted in their politicans mind. May be their national flag keep reminding them time and again who their queen is and which country their white European forefathers came from.

It is laughable to hear the Aussie prime minister to claim China as a threat to their national security,and the need to protect the lives of Autralians from military attacks. He is just parroting Biden and Trump's anti-China talks, and you may call Australia US's best ally/side-kick/lapdog.

A possible explaination for having such behaviour could be Australia's feel of insecurity as an "Europen country" in Asia. China is too big and powerful, Indonesia is a potential threat, so playing the role of obedient servant to US is the only way to ensure US's protection.

But seriously, is Australia under any military threat? May be the memory of Imperial Japanese attacks on Darwin and Sydney harbour in WW2 still imprinted deep in their mind.
The unspoken understanding that white australians sense is that they benefit from white anglo supremacy and that China's rise negates their position of privilege, hence why they will overwhelmingly vote for the same parties that toe the anglo american line.

Out of all the british colonies, australia is the most successful white colonised state; south africa was returned to the natives as was zimbabwe and Rhodesia is no more.
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
If you've lived in any part of Asia, be it taiwan, mainland China, south east asia et al you'll become aware that Australia is well known for its shameful White Australia Policy. It's not going to take much for ASEAN and China to gang up on white australia.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think there's too much focus on what Australia is doing, rather than what China will do in response to AUKUS.

The British AH140 frigates ordered by Indonesia may be one casualty, and would need a replacement
The Indonesian submarine contract may be another option.

I don't see additional Indonesian frigates and submarines having any adverse effect on China.

Ditto for AWACs surveillance aircraft
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The unspoken understanding that white australians sense is that they benefit from white anglo supremacy and that China's rise negates their position of privilege, hence why they will overwhelmingly vote for the same parties that toe the anglo american line.

Out of all the british colonies, australia is the most successful white colonised state; south africa was returned to the natives as was zimbabwe and Rhodesia is no more.
They saw the example of New Zealand where many liberal white Anglos got reverse assimilated by Maori and now are calling for New Zealand to be renamed Aotearoa, making Maori the official language, giving up offensive military, etc. They are determined to never "go native".

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

No Indians were defecting to join colonial society, but many whites were defecting to live in the Native American one.
 
Top