Attempt of smuggling parts of J-11/Su-30 from russia to china via finland

Making sense? Your denyial to facts are the ones not making sense...I'm only trowing speculations out there and beside that you just ignore them, you seem to think that the whole incidence haven't got any sense...perhaps it wont, if you want to see it that way, but the fact remains, it happened, PARTS OF SUKHOI AIRCRAFT HAVE BEEN SMUGGLED FROM RUSSIA VIA FINLAND TO CHINA, your denying of this is just silly...


I know where Irkut is, I know about the Su-27UBs in china are from Irkut, I know about Su-37...I just pointed out one possiple solution...Why don't you just drop this issue as you obviously aren't willing to conduct any meaningfull discussion, you just want to argue agaisnt me over some reasons nothing to do with this thread. Let us rest to do the speculation where exactly was those parts headed...You are a good poster and knowlidgeble guy, but that wont help you if you keep acting like you do...better just cool down before something permament might happen...

G, would you be kind enough to point out where in the article does it say How the officials know the parts are going for China? You dont normally see conatraband being marked with it's destination. If they interrogated smugglers, the smugglers could very well be lying.

it would be appreciated.

Hehey man, Long time no see,

G, would you be kind enough to point out where in the article does it say How the officials know the parts are going for China? You dont normally see conatraband being marked with it's destination. If they interrogated smugglers, the smugglers could very well be lying.

Click to expand...

Here's what the english version said...
Over less than the past year, attempts have been seen to smuggle materials including jet fighter parts intended for shipment to Serbia-Montenegro and China

And here's the Finnish version:
Venäläishävittäjien varaosat Viron kautta Aasiaan

Viro näyttää yhä houkuttelevan erilaisia laittomia kauttakuljettajia.
Viime viikolla suojelupoliisi pidätti viisi henkilöä, joita epäillään Su -27 ja Su-30 -suihkuhävittäjien varaosien salakuljettamisesta Venäjältä Viron kautta Aasiaan. Neljä heistä on yhä vangittuna.
Viranomaisten mukaan syytetyt piilottivat strategiseksi luokitellut varaosat eräässä tallinnalaisessa tullivarastossa tavaran alle ja veivät ne laittomasti ulkomaille.
Kohdemaina on mainittu Kiina, Malesia ja Bangladesh. Virossa kyseiseen liiketoimintaan tarvitaan ulkoministeriön lupa. Sellaista ei kukaan ollut kuitenkaan anonut.
Osa laittomasta tavarasta on takavarikoitu, mutta kun bisnestä on tehty mitä todennäköisemmin jo pitkään, perillekin on ehtinyt jotakin.
Rikostutkintaa johtava syyttäjä Kadri Väling ei halua kommentoida, kuinka kauan laitonta kauppaa on Viron kautta käyty.
- En toistaiseksi voi täsmentää edes sitä, ketkä ovat tilaajat tai mihin tarkoitukseen hävittäjien varaosat tilattiin, Väling sanoo.
Hän myöntää kuitenkin, että tavara-eräät ovat peräisin Venäjältä ja Valko-Venäjältä.
Sellaisia kuljetuksia pidetään koko maailmassa huolellaan silmällä, koska valvonnan heikentyminen saattaa koitua vaaraksi kansainväliselle turvallisuudelle.
Viime vuonna Viron rajalla tulli havaitsi seitsemän tapausta kun Venäjältä yritettiin tuoda maahan tai kauttakuljettaa erilaista sotilaallista kalustoa

The coloured part says directly translated: "Designation countryes were China, Malaysia and Bangdalesh"

Ah...i saw that already. my question may take some thinking beyond the article. It asks your opinion:

How do you think the officials knew that the parts were headed to China? Did the boxes containing the parts say so, or did the smugglers admit it, or what?

I don't know for certain, but I have good thrust to our officials detectitive craftmanship that they have found it out. Also I've got high thrust to YLE that they wont go tell deliperate lies. WHy would the article say "China" if there wouldn't be any evidence?

Im just skeptical of the whole thing...
So I created a case study

theres lots of things that could be misleading
Case 1: The smugglers said so when interrogated
Problem: they could be lying to save their asses

Case 2: Shipment was traced to an order in China
Problem: It may to a person in China, but he might second hand the parts to another country.

Case 3: Parts were on a transport (ships? plane?) headed for China.
Problem: You never know where a smuggling ship may go, or if China is only one stop in a longer route

From the way you post, Gol, you don't know where Irkut is. If you want to smuggle parts from Irkut, there is a much longer much less unguarded and much closer border to do it, right across Mongolia.

Your persistance that people would use USED parts to make brand new aircraft simply cries out that you just don't know anything about aircraft construction at all. Don't argue on this point, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. This procedure is extremely unsafe. Get a grip on the basics of aircraft maintenance and manufacturing. I honestly expect that you would have some standards in understanding some basic engineering and manufacturing principles.

And I will still doubt your YLE reporting openly and without hesitation. Simply because there is no logical construction. Do you know how silly the article sounds?

This is the real facts.

Bangladesh and Malaysia currently do not own any Flankers. Malaysia is still in the process of purchasing their Su-30s which is going to be **partly built in India**, which means the parts are going to come there. They got no use for second hard Su-27 parts considering how different their Su-30s are going to be.

If YLE actually bothered to do some easy fact checking, they would know that Malaysia and Bangladesh currently do not own any Flankers and if they do, they won't be the types that would rely on smuggled parts. They would know that the manifests are therefore just a coverup or stopovers to the true destination of the parts.

There goes your media credibility.

So a bunch of Flanker parts were found without proper papers, and no legit flanker user would have any reasonable use for them. Then why are they getting shipped to Finland, and possibly to somewhere else beyound? Crobato, since you are the expert here, how about some educated speculations?

Someone who is using Flankers in a clandestine fashion, or in a mercenary capacity. My main suspect is Eritrea or some other African country. My other suspect is the US itself, which may have a couple of used Flankers obtained from former Soviet republics and these planes are being used in evaluation against their own types.

I know where irkut is, and from Finland point of wiev it's as far as any other Siberian city...I merely pointed out one possipility...

And what comes my persistance that people would use USED parts, I wonder, is the word used somehow stuck in your head and you just need to pour it all occasion? Becouse there haven't been any talks about used parts. I'm not stating that aircrafts are manufactured from used pars, not in China nor anywhere else...

About YLEs creditability, I agree there is some weird stuff, but that doesen't automaticly mean it entirely baseless...Thats the whole reason why I opened this thread, but it seems that you are simply just too pride and arrogant to admitt that China would need to smuggle parts of Sukhoi planes illegaly...

And so that it wont left out, One more comment on my or anyone elses "lack of understantment" from you and I start pouring similar stuff about my belives over your persona, and when I start doing it, there are bigger consequences than just agry mind...Got it?