Gollevainen said:
Well first of all, who said anything about seccond hand parts? In my belive they obtained parts to J-11 that they couldn't othervice produce or had proplems with the idegenious parts...Perhaps it's a pride-thing, not willing to admitt that they still haven't be able to adopt all parts from the palnes to llocal manufacture.
A completely nonsense argument. If they had problems producing indigenous equivalents, there is no need for any reason to obtain them through a backchannel when they can obtain them formally from Sukhoi. Sukhoi opened a formal office in Beijing.
Brand new parts would mean large orders to the Russian companeis that make them. There is no way you can "back channel' these because these are large contract orders to public corporations and often Russian government owned corporations, all of whom are all under scrutiny and subject to standard export procedures.
And what comes to YLE credibility and you believing more of internet based stuff, well thats just tells lots about yourself and i wont going to comment on that any longer to avoid insulting you.
Frankly I think you are beginning to lower my opinion about your credibility here. You don't show anything to suggest you have a faintest idea of engineering, military procurement, quality control protocols and procedures. Why smuggle and lose valuable official warranty and service support?
But this article doesen't leak...our custom did intercept a transfer of parts of sukhoi fighters headed for china and found out that this particular transfer was just of tip of iceberg.
You really don't know a bit or two about smuggling do you? In the first place, it ain't a smuggling operation if you happen to know the final destination of the product.
In a real smuggling operation, the
true destination of the product is never revealed. If the product is mislabled, then so is the written destination on them.
It's smuggeling, very standart practice of transfering the parts trough several countryes. Finland was involved as it's was the cateway from russia to EU, the parts propaply transfer to other EU countryes and finaly via route unknow to me, to china.
Smugglng through Finland is not a standard practice for smuiggling to China. You never answered my point do you? Why do you want to smuggle through Finalnd, when you can smuggle it through Russia's border with China, which is much more loosely policed and easier to bribe anyway?
Why do you even need to smuggle it through Finland when you can put the goods in many of the Chinese vessels porting in Russia?
You refuse to belive it, well like i said it tells lot about you. No wonder why many people thinks chinese members in internet forums have nasty habbit of ignoring some facts (mostly all with negative aspects of chinese military might) and twisting the ones they do register...now i've slowly starting to get behind the overestimated belives and dreams of many, many members. This thing has nothing to do with logic, only with things you want to believe.
Ignoring facts? You are the one who is ignoring logic. You have not addressed a single one of my five to seven questions directly. Frankly, Chinese members in internet forums have been a lot more correct in showing what is happening on the PLA than all the laughable Western media and expert opinion which never gets things right even in a measly 10 percent. I remember how you were questioning China ever getting the Shtil-1 when Chinese internet forum members have direct evidence of such. It seems to me when you are confronted with serious questioning, you are the one heading to insult land, and going yadayada over the media's credibility---by the way, all media is not directly credible---I have seen far too many mistakes even by so called credible media.
As for Sea Dog
The story does sound authentic and quite similar to some of the smuggling attempts we've seen from U.S. sources. But I'm just trying to find out from some of you young guys what you think the significance of it is. I myself don't know exactly why Chinese sources would need to smuggle these parts from Russia. Are the parts for locally manufactured units of lower grade or lower tolerances? Honestly, I don't know and am just curious as to some of your thoughts.
The smuggling attempts of parts from the US is more of intelligence and technology gathering, not to supply parts for the Chinese armed forces. By the way, expect all countries to do it on each other but that is part of clandestine operations. The USSR used to do that on the US and so does the US to the USSR.
A lot of stuff are also headed for Hong Kong but it does not mean that their final destination is the mainland China. Hong Kong is often used as a transhipment to another final destination. Recently the carcass of a MiG-29 fighter was discovered by the Hong Kong police in one of the vessels ported there. I really doubt that the MiG-29 is headed to China at all, considering Hong Kong is their territory already and won't make a fuss about it. It's obvious that the plane is headed somewhere else. It should be noted that the smuggling between China and Russia occurs mainly on the borders.
China has no need to smuggle parts of their Sukhois when they can get it formally and brand new with complete support and warranty. Anyone who is trying to get parts for Sukhois through a backchannel can only be an operator that can be running a secret squadron of Sukhois in a clandestine fashion. I think this is much more likely to be a Western nation which I leave you up to guess.
