American UFO disclosures

Mohsin77 · May 24, 2021

ougoah said:
I did say they could have reverse engineered it.

Like I said, this isn't an engineering issue, it's a question of fundamental physics. We simply cannot engineer a non-inertial mass that defies gravity, because we have no physical understanding of such a thing.

And if we were to discover such physics, that event would immediately eclipse Einstein and Bohr in the history of Physics, and be bigger than General Relativity and Quantum Physics combined. It would even eclipse the discovery of Electrodynamics. It would change everything. It would be the biggest scientific leap since the birth of the scientific method itself in Ibn-Haytham's Book of Optics.

Phead128 · May 24, 2021

ougoah said:
They could have literally a million and a half reasons not to communicate. That's a piece of nothing.

Again going along with that line of thinking. I won't believe until it's undeniably true and if that moment were to ever come, I would not be surprised one bit.

This is an intellectually dishonest conversation if you aren't going to list some of this "million reasons" and then abruptly dismiss it.

Let me profess that I do believe in extraterrestrial life forms, given the law of numbers and probability, we are likely not alone in the universe or even the most advanced beings in the universe. There is likely more advanced civilizations out there. The question is, what is the most likely motive upon their first contact with Earth? Is it peaceful, adversarial, or "hide-and-go-seek" (the most laughable unlikely probability)

But I do believe that life is of competition, and advanced civilizations would absolutely make themselves known, possibly even enslave and conquer us given the technological advantages. There is no convincing reason not to. They might want peaceful relations, but there is not convincing reason to play "hide-and-go-seek" (with the Pentagon no less, what a joke).

ougoah · May 24, 2021

Phead128 said:
This is an intellectually dishonest conversation if you aren't going to list some of this "million reasons" and then abruptly dismiss it.

Let me profess that I do believe in extraterrestrial life forms, given the law of numbers and probability, we are likely not alone in the universe or even the most advanced beings in the universe. There is likely more advanced civilizations out there. The question is, what is the most likely motive upon their first contact with Earth? Is it peaceful, adversarial, or "hide-and-go-seek" (the most laughable unlikely probability)

But I do believe that life is of competition, and advanced civilizations would absolutely make themselves known, possibly even enslave and conquer us given the technological advantages. There is no convincing reason not to.

Okay I agree it would seem like that because I can't be bothered listing a few reasons. But aren't they more than obvious?

What compels an alien race to communicate? Why can't they remain silent observers? They could be stealthy and silent or let us know their presence but remain silent. Maybe we're just a curiosity. Maybe they don't want to steer us, maybe they do. Too many possibilities. None of them mean the situation is a binary. Mohsin is absolutely right that you made a false equivalence with the European invasion and conquest of south America. When I walk by an anthill in my backyard, I can invade it, destroy it, watch it etc. It doesn't mean a "superior" race/species simply must act as you claim. There's no law that enforces it.

Phead128 · May 24, 2021

ougoah said:
Okay I agree it would seem like that because I can't be bothered listing a few reasons. But aren't they more than obvious?

Right, just like "God"'s existence is so obvious, religious folks don't need to be inconvenienced by explaining the details.

ougoah said:
What compels an alien race to communicate?

a) large expense of creating technologically advanced device, there must be a motive for creating this expensive device.
b) large time to travel light-years to reach new destinations, there must be a motive for travelling across galaxies.
c) combine these two expensive and time consuming motives, that likelyhood they only play "hide-and-go-seek" is very not convincing at all.

ougoah said:
Why can't they remain silent observers? They could be stealthy and silent or let us know their presence but remain silent.

Even God left intermediaries like Jesus or Mohamed to communicate on God's behalf to humanrind.

So you are going to trust at Advanced Aliens left the Pentagon to act as intermediaries to communicate UFO's existence to humanity?

Totally not related to new U.S. Space Force desiring more military funding... yea totally.

ougoah said:
Maybe we're just a curiosity. Maybe they don't want to steer us, maybe they do. Too many possibilities.

UFO discovered 600G/13,000MPH machines, but never learned about long-range telescopes or high-def satellite cameras to stealthy spy on people. When they develop a transportation device, it suggests they want to have physical contact, not just viewing from afar. They can easily do that with long-range telescopes if they are an advanced civilization. If they travel to destination, it's highly likely they are wanting physical communication, not just visual, which can be achieved with high-def cameras or telescopes.

ougoah said:
None of them mean the situation is a binary. Mohsin is absolutely right that you made a false equivalence with the European invasion and conquest of south America.

Based on the reasons you given, I am not convinced and no reasonable person would be convinced either.

ougoah said:
When I walk by an anthill in my backyard,

False equivalence.

The entire ant hill population can you when you walk past them, the entire ant hill population does not doubt your existence, because they can all see you.

UFOs don't present themselves to the entire ant hill population, they only present themselves to Anglo and Jewish militaries. Possibly because these two militaries want more military funding and it's a ruse to get more Space Force funding.

ougoah said:
I can invade it, destroy it, watch it etc. It doesn't mean a "superior" race/species simply must act as you claim. There's no law that enforces it.

The ants can see you, therefore the ants don't doubt your existence. UFOs don't present themselves to the entire humankind like you are walking past an anthill.

And yes, UFOs either will make physical contact (peaceful or adversaries) but highly unlikely to "hide-and-go-seek" because they can spy on us using stealthy long-range telescopes if they simply wanted to "view from afar".

voyager1 · May 24, 2021

Lovely debate but all these posts are meaningless unless you can answer one of my previous posts:

"People underestimate the power of any potential alien visit to Earth.

If they are capable of Interstellar travel, it means their understanding of physics are many many levels above us. It means material science is worlds (sic) above our level etc

And most importantly it means that their energy level must have surprassed energy Fusion and went to more advanced (antimatter, tiny blackholes etc) sci-fi levels

These guys wouldnt even need to physically come in here. They could use their science prowess to observe Earth many times better than we humans who live here can do."

So why would they need to come here physically when they can observe us from distance?

Does anyone really believe that we could even be able to "see" them (visible, infrared etc spectrum)
Does anyone really believe that a UFO crashed here LMAO...
Why would they get near the US military when they could just get access to the US internal networks (using self-developed sci-fi methods)

Until these questions are answers you might as well start going into fantasy land theories

Phead128 · May 24, 2021

voyager1 said:
Lovely debate but all these posts are meaningless unless you can answer one of my previous posts:

"People underestimate the power of any potential alien visit to Earth.

If they are capable of Interstellar travel, it means their understanding of physics are many many levels above us. It means material science is worlds (sic) above our level etc

And most importantly it means that their energy level must have surprassed energy Fusion and went to more advanced (antimatter, tiny blackholes etc) sci-fi levels

These guys wouldnt even need to physically come in here. They could use their science prowess to observe Earth many times better than we humans who live here can do."

So why would they need to come here physically when they can observe us from distance?

Does anyone really believe that we could even be able to "see" them (visible, infrared etc spectrum)
Does anyone really believe that a UFO crashed here LMAO...
Why would they get near the US military when they could just get access to the US internal networks (using self-developed sci-fi methods)

Until these questions are answers you might as well start going into fantasy land theories

Exactly. Whole heartedly agree 100%.

If they are so technologically advanced, they likely have long-range telescopes to observe us from distance, or high-def satellite cameras to observe us from distance.

The fact they develop Transportation device means they want physical contact, not merely observe from distance.

. Why only Anglos/Jews have this special relationship with UFOs but the inferior Indians and Chinese do not? (The answer is, these Anglos/Jews are war-mongers that wants more space-military funding)

ougoah · May 24, 2021

Phead128 said:
Right, just like "God"'s existence is so obvious, religious folks don't need to be inconvenienced by explaining the details.

a) large expense of creating technologically advanced device, there must be a motive for creating this expensive device.
b) large time to travel light-years to reach new destinations, there must be a motive for travelling across galaxies.
c) combine these two expensive and time consuming motives, that likelyhood they only play "hide-and-go-seek" is very not convincing at all.

Even God left intermediaries like Jesus or Mohamed to communicate on God's behalf to humanrind.

So you are going to trust at Advanced Aliens left the Pentagon to act as intermediaries to communicate UFO's existence to humanity?

Totally not related to new U.S. Space Force desiring more military funding... yea totally.

UFO discovered 600G/13,000MPH machines, but never learned about long-range telescopes or high-def satellite cameras to stealthy spy on people. When they develop a transportation device, it suggests they want to have physical contact, not just viewing from afar. They can easily do that with long-range telescopes if they are an advanced civilization. If they travel to destination, it's highly likely they are wanting physical communication, not just visual, which can be achieved with high-def cameras or telescopes.

Based on the reasons you given, I am not convinced and no reasonable person would be convinced either.

False equivalence.

The entire ant hill population can you when you walk past them, the entire ant hill population does not doubt your existence, because they can all see you.

UFOs don't present themselves to the entire ant hill population, they only present themselves to Anglo and Jewish militaries. Possibly because these two militaries want more military funding and it's a ruse to get more Space Force funding.

The ants can see you, therefore the ants don't doubt your existence. UFOs don't present themselves to the entire humankind like you are walking past an anthill.

And yes, UFOs either will make physical contact (peaceful or adversaries) but highly unlikely to "hide-and-go-seek" because they can spy on us using stealthy long-range telescopes if they simply wanted to "view from afar".

I personally don't believe there is any irrefutable evidence there are ET visits. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they are visiting.

If there is, I don't believe it is limited to interactions with the Israeli and US government only. Just because some don't talk about it, doesn't necessarily mean they haven't had interactions.

Your claim that they won't be playing hide and seek doesn't go towards proving any of your points you realise?

You have made your point about this being a US gov hoax to get funding for whatever program. Your arguments and reasoning is unsound. I'm not going to converse about this argument further. We've made our points.

If you notice, I also am quite doubtful this recent stuff is anything more than US government ploy for whatever. The reasons I don't care to speculate on because they are numerous.

sequ · May 24, 2021

Mohsin77 said:
Like I said, this isn't an engineering issue, it's a question of fundamental physics. We simply cannot engineer a non-inertial mass that defies gravity, because we have no physical understanding of such a thing.

And if we were to discover such physics, that event would immediately eclipse Einstein and Bohr in the history of Physics, and be bigger than General Relativity and Quantum Physics combined. It would even eclipse the discovery of Electrodynamics. It would change everything. It would be the biggest scientific leap since the birth of the scientific method itself in Ibn-Haytham's Book of Optics.

Agreed. A unified field theory would enable one to fold space and time and thus would make interstellar travel as easy as visiting your neighbor. Without such a theory, you can say goodbye to any successful attempt at interstellar travel.

If an alien race has this capability, it would've already explored the entire universe and would make sure to get rid of any potential discovery of this unified field theory that will in turn endanger them.

I'm definitely not buying this Darwinian, alien, pan-spermia mythos. The people that want to propagate this are atheist, globalist technocrats that want to destroy (Abrahamic) religions so that they can eventually become 'gods' themselves though technological singularity. They deny God because they themselves want to become 'god'.

I've also noticed that it is under democratic party leadership that these alien myths get propagated. Of course the Dems are knee deep in this globalist agenda.

Mohsin77 · May 24, 2021

voyager1 said:
Does anyone really believe that we could even be able to "see" them (visible, infrared etc spectrum)
Does anyone really believe that a UFO crashed here LMAO...
Why would they get near the US military when they could just get access to the US internal networks (using self-developed sci-fi methods)

1) Not unless they wanted to be seen.
2) Agree, that's ridiculous from a technical perspective.
3) That's a question of intent. It has nothing to do with empirical facts. All arguments which rely on questioning the motives of the UFOs as a basis of rejecting the existence of these intercept reports are just bad arguments.

Here are your only two choices:
A) The Pentagon has made all of this stuff up intentionally
B) These UFO intercepts happened, which would make this technology alien by definition (because its beyond our known physics.)

There are no other options on the table. Nothing else explains all the data. But even if we go with Option A, it wouldn't mean the US has the technology to actually build these objects (because they don't have the underlying physics, no human does.) They would just be lying that they exist, for whatever reason.

silentlurker · May 24, 2021

Mohsin77 said:
No pulse jet can explain the motion that he is describing. It's technically impossible. Also, the recently released video of the UFO buzzing a US destroyer was captured from the underside. There was no pulse jet.

All I'm saying is that this object (if it isn't a hoax) would necessarily be beyond our understanding of physics. This mass was ignoring the constraints of inertia and defying gravity. We don't know of any energy/mass that can do that.... maybe 'Dark Energy' but we have no idea what that is either... All we have been able to hypothesize is that Dark Energy is repulsively to gravitational energy/mass... but it is not something we have directly observed, it is simply one way to explain the rate of the expansion of the universe.

To me, that was the most immediately interesting thing about all of this... the physics aspect.

I think he does mention the CAP point somewhere in this 2 hour conversation (I have to listen to it again too.) Fravor has given multiple long-form interviews and I've head him talk about the CAP point (it was also mentioned in the CNN piece recently.) But his testimony is always consistent (some interviews obviously have more details than others, but none of his interviews contain any contradictory information.)

EDIT: I just heard it again, he does mention the CAP point at 1:28:30

Interesting, I guess I missed that part, I tend to sorta skip around.

Regarding what you said about the crafts propulsion, I don't see why it would necessitate anti-gravity or the like. As long as a craft is light enough and has enough instantaneous thrust, it can appear to sharply change direction. Is this beyond current engineering capabilities? Probably, but I wouldn't say it is defying physics.

Also, I don't think it is reasonable to string together all instances of unidentified craft together and associate all of them with this tic-tac incident.

American UFO disclosures

Mohsin77

Senior Member

Phead128

Captain

ougoah

Brigadier

Phead128

Captain

voyager1

Captain

Phead128

Captain

ougoah

Brigadier

sequ

Captain

Mohsin77

Senior Member

silentlurker

Junior Member