American Economics Thread

[manqiangrexue]

What's the range of American IRBMs based in Okinawa?

The imaginary range of the imaginary IRBMs in Okinawa? I don't know; I deal in the realm of reality.

Those same allies listened to American dikdats about Chinese infrastructure projects and huawei in their country. American coercieve capacities are the gift that keeps on giving because it weakens everyone else which makes it even more coercieve.

And yet Huawei is still the world's largest 5G provider and now finally has the drive to become self-sufficient.

Split America in two? LOL. The county-election maps from 2000 and 2020 are basically the same. The insurance damage from all the fires and the capitol building was what? A few hundred million dollars. It's insignificant.

I don't think so. Get me the source for this claim. But I wasn't thinking about money. I've just never seen America with so much hatred and internal strife.

That you care so much just shows how fragile china is.

I brought it up because your fragile self was talking about Xinjiang.

The US is very stable internally, and even if it wasn't, no one cares, the US state is plenty repressive and coercieve.

Repression is a time bomb breeding people who do not contribute to the government and who lack loyalty to the nation.

No, they cancelled it and frosty EU-China relations are in the US interest because it sabotages EU growth rates, China's growth rates and tilts the EU towards the United States.

But this loser's sabotage still cannot reverse the trend of China growing faster than the US. That's what it's all about. The CAI's effects are not known but what is certain is that the US has failed to reverse that trend.

The US killed tens of thousands of Taliban and that's with US restraint.

The objective is to control the country. They killed many Taliban but more people joined as Taliban because of America's failed repression.

The US will take control of the future of tech and the economy

Not the trend we see now. We see China growing faster everywhere.

with migration

America has always had that, and it got a mix of good and bad and with more and more repression, the good are unloyal while the bad complain and drag the economy.

, research & development

Which the US already cannot keep pace with China, just trying to see how long they can cling to what they had.

and investments in physical and human capital

All a waste due to American inefficiency

while China will have a demographic crisis

Tell me when it happens. not when you imagine it.

while struggling to export anything to anyone

Except it is the world's largest exporter and its exports are growing. You need to stand in reality, not your imagination.

and be spending all of its days import substituting US tech from decades ago while the US races ahead.

China's spending its days now developing tech that the US doesn't have as the US languishes with COVID and desperately implores people everywhere to support it or be taken over by China.

No. America isn't desperate.

Yeah, insane levels of hatred with a global shit-show trying to convince other countries to sail a few circles in the SCS China doesn't sound desperate.

The US stole Japan's semiconductor technology in the 1990s

Japan was actually a competitor to the US in the 1990's.

, German technology in the 1940s

Spoils of war

and British technology in the 1800s

What? Source, explain. And in the 1800's they were not on good terms either after the Revolutionary War.

and then kept soaring upwards.

But no longer.

The allies are America's bitch, they do whatever the US tells them do. Bullies always win. That's why America is so successful. Stealing improves your strength, weakens others and zooms you.

These are the things that a weak country must do because it does not possess the natural ability to out-compete and out-innovate a rival like China that has all the power it needs within.

On another note, you sound very angry and personal cheering bullies. Psychologically speaking, this is typically a sign of a person who has lived his life in weakness dying for an imaginary chance to be a dominant bully. These people also really like to use the word, "Winning," because they don't know the specifics or how to articulate it but find such a claim satisfying. I've heard a guy use it 3 times in a row with no meaning!

 

[Deleted member 15949]

GDP isn't the determination of victory. Control of land is and the US fled in defeat just like in Afghanistan.

GDP is the only determinant of victory in US-China.

Then the US COVID recession must have been very long.

Money printing solved that.

Small entities grow fast with only a small lift. If you lemonade stand sold 4 cups today and 8 cups tomorrow, that's 100% growth. Tropicana can't do that, can they?

Except China was matching the Tiger growth rates until the trade war and then it slowed suddenly. The trade war sabotaged China's growth rates at 1-2% p.a. forever.

All the ones you imagined? There's no point in imagining effect that is uncertain; the point is, the US failed to reverse the trend of China outgrowing it.

Time series data, ARIMA and GARCH say high.

No, the biggest effect the US has on China is spur Chinese innovation and self-sufficiency. Without it, Xi's MIC2025 was meeting domestic resistance for profit. Now they are working!

So China's economy became more inefficient? Beautiful, amazing good news for the United States. Now China has to waste so much in factors of production reinventing the wheel and has to pursue self-sufficiency while the US engages deeper with the global economy and has efficiency gains to boot.

As I said, immediate profits should be sacrificed for long term quality growth with self-sufficient technology. Who would be willing to make this sacrifice if not forced?

You act as if self-sufficency is a good idea. Ask North Korea how that is going. WTF is "quality growth"? All growth is "quality growth". Now China just has less of it.

Warm bodies are of little importance; India has 4x more warm bodies than the US. Knowledge and tech are important and Chine develops them faster than anyone else. The US can't do that... anymore.

America's institutions are moons ahead of India's. The US can easily handle 4x more people.

For you. It may be the reserve currency but too much of it and it will depreciate all the same.

The Fed literally monetized the biggest deficits in history and USD usage globally has gone up.

China has much more horizontal development to go and much more growth potential.

Still poorer and less advantaged than Alabama.

Not really, not in AI or quantum computing. China overtook the US in the most scientific papers published, especially in physics. While the US has still some traditional advantages, they are all being chewed up by China's speed. That's what's panicking the US.

Wow, you can publish junk no one cites. America is ahead on all technology, just look at market capitalizations.

Couldn't control laughter here LOL You're in your own fantasy while the US spends trillions of dollars on nothing with $40K toilet seats in the military.

yeah, in China, the corruption isn't even caught.

Professional liars that only fool stupid people and never faced a country with a large population and large territory like China...

Doesn't matter. China is a technologically backward, impoverished country and the US will keep it that way.

Succinctly? That train has already left the station. Beat China? Says the country who lost in Korea, Vietnam, SCS, and decapitate? No, it only does that to its allies. The US might decapitate itself from high blood pressure if it keeps seething from so much hate.

Doesn't matter. All the US needs to do is to keep China's economy down and you already outlined how the US is going to do that. Technology denial to keep China's economy inefficient and wasteful while the US races ahead, military posturing to keep China spending endless money and restricting China's access to 3rd markets, making an export-dependent economy have job losses at the same time the US exports inflation to the rest of the world, wrecking the pitiful remains of Chinese manufacturing of toys and clothes and the occasional machine.

 

[tokenanalyst]

Except, no. 90% of US trade is contained within the Western Hemisphere. The same cannot be said about China. The US is basically autarkic, China is not and thus China would suffer more.

No, the US is not self-dependent as they think, do you think that "make a America great again" was something that Trump invented out of the nothing, no is because the United State is losing to everyone not just China,they are dependant in semicondutors, rare earths, manufacturing, services even still oil, if for some reason that is cut U.S is plunged into a depression.

Yeah, China would start a war (that the US would win) and China would have more casualities and hurt more of its trading partners. WIN WIN WIN for the United States

Causalities don't win wars, if not ask the Taliban. What win wars is goals. A big war for the U.S will be a bigger disaster than their response for Covid.

Nope. The US war machine is responsible for cutting edge research in computing, in materials science and in integrated circuits that make China's lithography and aircraft engines a joke. And even then, state governments spend so much money on capital formation and now the federla government is only going to spend more. So much capital formation in the pipeline

I used to be that way in the past now the Pentagon is just a dinosaur with a money eating black hole in their stomach pooping
expensive failed projects that have cost U.S. taxpayers trillions while the U.S. is the only rich nation without Universal Healthcare.

Nope. It would force all the world to choose between the US & China and they always choose the US (just look at the Israeli desalination plant, the UK nuclear plant, the UK HS2, Huawei, etc, etc). They always always always choose the US because US coercieve capacities are amazing.

Countries do whatever is good for them, even Americans allies have needs, they will negotiate with China when needed, you give some examples but this is the counter example

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At the end of the day allies or not a country leader has to care for their own citizens not Americans desires. That is why China have convinced many nations to break with Taiwan, economics triumph ideology.

LOL, a few CIA agents caused terrorism in Xinjiang and that caused China to spend billions of dollars on counterterrorism and gave the US a tool to sabotage the EU-China CAI and a pretext for more sanctions. It cost the US a few thousand dollars and China tens of billions. The US controls this escalation ladder

Like always this blowback into the CIA faces because give China more strength and more influence not just in the region but also in Central Asia.

Now this is China semiconductor thread NOT a China hate thread or you either stay on topic or GTFO of this thread.
Where are the moderators?

 

[manqiangrexue]

They exist

Show me the article that says they exist.

Cut down to size and self-sufficency is just money they are spending re-inventing the wheel instead of studying EM.

Self-sufficiency means making phones that don't sell American/Taiwanese chips. Even with this digression, America has no chance to catch Huawei's 5G.

It's a massive win.

For China and Huawei.

The 1960s/1970s Civil Rights movement says hi. Hernandez v. Texas says hi. Korematsu vs. United States says hi.

I say bye. I wanted the claim that all the riots in the US cost under $1B. This one says over $2B just from the George Floyd ones.

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Where China spent tens of billions of dollars on counter-terrorism after the CIA beautifully and cheaply spent a few thousand dollars on a terrorist attack? And that caused a beautiful pretext for sanctions? great

Show me the source on what you think happened and how much China spent. I can't help but feel you are making everything up.

Everyone in the US is loyal. US propaganda works. Repression isn't a ticking time bomb

You are literally arguing with Chinese people on this forum who live in the US and want to see it fail against China. Your claims are far to stupid and that is easy to demonstrate.

Doesn't matter. China's heading off to a demographic crisis so dozens of bips in growth rates compounded over many years means China's economy will never overtake the economy.

That's not what the growth trends show. It's only your wishful imagination.

China's growth rate is slowing and will soon hit 4% and the US will be at 3% meaning China will never overtake the US this century.

Imaaaaggginnnatioonnnn (Sing it like South Park LOL)

Yep. All states need repression. The US uses it artfully, so that most people participate in the economy.

And that repression causes people to participate by setting property on fire and ransacking the capital building threatening to kill the Vice President and Speaker of the House.

The American bureaucracy is the most efficient one.

Especially during Filibusters and Congress vs House, Dem vs. Rep deadlocks, right? LOL

America isn't languishing with COVID. No one cares except old people dying and improving public balance sheets.

And young people with longer term damage from COVID.

COVID has been a win for the United States because the United States has exported inflation to the rest of the world, had a pretext to print endless money and do physical/capital investment, diffuse productivity improving technology and kill old people (and thus improve public balance sheets) and give the US a narrative of lab-leak when it goes to war with China in the future.

1. No, the US economy was slower than China's and is now much slower than China's.
2. You really sound like a person who hates old people and anything good. I guess that's what it takes to support the US...

Still on paper an-ally. Stealing technology works.

Paper means nothing compared to real life. It works, China did it, but eventually, you want to be good enough not to need to do it.

HAHA, keep dreaming.

I dream of a day when you can read charts and trends, but I'm not hopeful so I'll look at them and be happy seeing China out grow the US.

Nope. You improve yourself and be the best bandit possible. Being the best bandit and the best researcher is how to outcompete and outinnovate. You can't be wedded to bullshit values.

There's a time to be a bandit and a time to rely on your true value. For China, the time to be a bandit was when it was technologically poor and needed boosts everywhere. Now it is a leader in technology and has more momentum than any other country so it will rely on its own innovation and being the best researcher. America is not as fortunate; it used to rely on being the best researcher but now can only be a bandit because its natural population is too lazy and it finds that it cannot compete naturally, so it has no way to match China's natural speed, even through thievery.

I'm not angry. I'm the most relaxed person you'll ever find.

The most relaxed person who imagines decapitating countries and bullies being king forever. Somehow, I find this as funny as your claim that everyone in the US is loyal to it LOL

 

[manqiangrexue]

GDP is the only determinant of victory in US-China.

Obviously, because there is no kinetic war; it is a trade war. Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam are actual kinetic wars. How stupid are you that you can't see the difference?

Money printing solved that.

Solved what? It's still recovering. China solved that without money printing.

Except China was matching the Tiger growth rates until the trade war and then it slowed suddenly. The trade war sabotaged China's growth rates at 1-2% p.a. forever.

China's growth rate was very slowly declining all along as it matured from over 8% to low 6's. The trade war didn't change this trend or effect it and there is no forever.

Time series data, ARIMA and GARCH say high.

Say high? That's nonsense. What does that mean?

So China's economy became more inefficient?

No, you did not read correctly.

Beautiful, amazing good news for the United States.

They don't look like they saw good news. Does Blinken/Pompeo look like they're happy with what they see in China? LOL

Now China has to waste so much in factors of production reinventing the wheel and has to pursue self-sufficiency

It's never a waste to improve tech; it's pointless to grow a large economy making cheap easy crap. Self-sufficiency in high tech industries is the key to strength.

while the US engages deeper with the global economy and has efficiency gains to boot.

Imaginary

You act as if self-sufficency is a good idea.

Of course it is.

Ask North Korea how that is going.

Bad; they are too small and with too little capital to be self-sufficient and cutting edge. China can do it.

WTF is "quality growth"? All growth is "quality growth". Now China just has less of it.

So ignorant as always. Quality growth is for example, making high tech goods that are difficult to make, important to life/business, and you can control. Low quality growth is, for example, making soap or cakes or shoes which cannot help you in any conflict and anybody can just ban you from.

America's institutions are moons ahead of India's. The US can easily handle 4x more people.

Yeah, so it proves that warm bodies are not the factor that is critical.

The Fed literally monetized the biggest deficits in history and USD usage globally has gone up.

And it'll all collapse if they choose a target too big, like China, and make that currency inconvenient.

Still poorer and less advantaged than Alabama.

For China's rural areas, not for China's metropolises. As I said, China has so much more room for horizontal development.

Wow, you can publish junk no one cites.

China is ahead in qualify publications as well.

America is ahead on all technology, just look at market capitalizations.

That is simply untrue. You have imagined it as you have many things. Just one recent example is that China has a mach 30 wind tunnel and the US can build nothing close.

yeah, in China, the corruption isn't even caught.

You can imagine that but then someone can rebut that even bigger things aren't caught in the US. But the fact is that China grows faster with a lower budget, thus making it more efficient.

Doesn't matter. China is a technologically backward, impoverished country and the US will keep it that way.

Your imagination doesn't matter. The US will watch in vain as it fails over and over again to delay China from overtaking it. No country that fits your description could possibly panic the US into its current pathetic state.

Doesn't matter. All the US needs to do is to keep China's economy down

Which it cannot do.

and you already outlined how the US is going to do that.

I've outlined how it fails over and over again.

Technology denial to keep China's economy inefficient and wasteful

Still nothing as inefficient and wasteful as the US government but with China, it spurs innovation and that spurs the momentum to pull ahead and keep going.

while the US races ahead

Nowhere

, military posturing to keep China spending endless money

The US spends money militarily posturing while China spends money building. What is the cost of a US FONOP to the SCS vs China sending a few local destroyers to follow them?

and restricting China's access to 3rd markets, making an export-dependent economy have job losses at the same time the US exports inflation to the rest of the world, wrecking the pitiful remains of Chinese manufacturing of toys and clothes and the occasional machine.

And failing in that effort as it watches Chinese trade climb as China transitions to high quality high tech manufacturing, which, apparently you didn't even know about.

 

[Tam]

If you have basic understanding of economics 101, then you should know that it isn't about the farmers. It is all about food inflation which is the core inflation. When fertilizer, propane, rent, and farming equipment costs increase, then there is a permanent increase of food prices which affect middle and lower class the most.

The prices of my own groceries have risen significantly. It's like I am now paying $80 to $100 for the same amount of things, or less, for what I used to pay $50 to $60 before. The worst part is the prices of meat.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

The prices of my own groceries have risen significantly. It's like I am now paying $80 to $100 for the same amount of things, or less, for what I used to pay $50 to $60 before. The worst part is the prices of meat.

You don't understand, that's you becoming more prosperous.

 

[Deleted member 15949]

Show me the article that says they exist.

You can Google

Self-sufficiency means making phones that don't sell American/Taiwanese chips. Even with this digression, America has no chance to catch Huawei's 5G.

Doesn't matter. Sweden and Finland are US slaves.

For China and Huawei.

They have to reinvent the wheel while US slaves Sweden and Finland advance forward. Beautiful.

say bye. I wanted the claim that all the riots in the US cost under $1B. This one says over $2B just from the George Floyd ones.

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LOL, it's still small potatoes. The US has always had protests. It's nothing new.

You are literally arguing with Chinese people on this forum who live in the US and want to see it fail against China. Your claims are far to stupid and that is easy to demonstrate.

Wow, only a few people. I'll change my statement. US propaganda works such that nearly all (>90%) of naturalized immigrants are loyal to the United States

That's not what the growth trends show. It's only your wishful imagination.

Imaaaaggginnnatioonnnn (Sing it like South Park LOL)

Not imagination. Truth.

And that repression causes people to participate by setting property on fire and ransacking the capital building threatening to kill the Vice President and Speaker of the House.

LOL, no. That's what happens when the US isn't repressive enough.

Especially during Filibusters and Congress vs House, Dem vs. Rep deadlocks, right? LOL

You mean political theatrics while the executive grinds on, publishing well-written analyses and policies in the Federal Register?

And young people with longer term damage from COVID.

Fake news

1. No, the US economy was slower than China's and is now much slower than China's.
2. You really sound like a person who hates old people and anything good. I guess that's what it takes to support the US...

Yes, China for now has the higher derivative of GDP but the US has the larger GDP and soon will have higher growth than China after the US shuts China out from global markets and deprives it of all technology intermediaries.

There's a time to be a bandit and a time to rely on your true value. For China, the time to be a bandit was when it was technologically poor and needed boosts everywhere. Now it is a leader in technology and has more momentum than any other country so it will rely on its own innovation and being the best researcher. America is not as fortunate; it used to rely on being the best researcher but now can only be a bandit because its natural population is too lazy and it finds that it cannot compete naturally, so it has no way to match China's natural speed, even through thievery.

No. America is the best researcher but it that doesn't mean America has the monopoly on science. Thus, if someone else has better science, it's better to steal or sabotage.

The most relaxed person who imagines decapitating countries and bullies being king forever. Somehow, I find this as funny as your claim that everyone in the US is loyal to it LOL

Violence is America's modus operandi.

 

[Deleted member 15949]

Obviously, because there is no kinetic war; it is a trade war. Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam are actual kinetic wars. How stupid are you that you can't see the difference?

Yes, the US-China conflict is fundamentally about who can be No. 1. Thus, the only thing that matters is disprate impact and the US can inflict far more damage on china than China on the US, including in kinetic war. Taiwan, the South China Sea, etc, are just symptoms.

Solved what? It's still recovering. China solved that without money printing.

China would be growing faster with money printing and the US is growing faster than its 2019 projections of 2021 GDP even with money printing.

China's growth rate was very slowly declining all along as it matured from over 8% to low 6's. The trade war didn't change this trend or effect it and there is no forever.

Yeah, the deceleration went from 0.2pp to 0.5pp in a single year. The trade war damaged that trend and hence, why China is growing slower than the Tigers at the same level of development, even with lower urbanization and higher inequality. China is poor, technologically backward and slow-growing.

They don't look like they saw good news. Does Blinken/Pompeo look like they're happy with what they see in China? LOL

If the tech bans didn't have economic upside, Blinken & Pompeo wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

It's never a waste to improve tech; it's pointless to grow a large economy making cheap easy crap. Self-sufficiency in high tech industries is the key to strength.

Self-sufficiency in high-tech industries is idiotic. You need high-tech but you obviously are growing faster if you are able to freely trade intermedaries and capital goods. China has to both reinvent the wheel and waste factors of production on intermedaries and capital goods while at the same time, hoping not to fall behind on final products.

Bad; they are too small and with too little capital to be self-sufficient and cutting edge. China can do it.

China *can* do it. It's just going to be highly inefficient, waste tons of resources and cause competitors to zoom forward since they can access all items.

So ignorant as always. Quality growth is for example, making high tech goods that are difficult to make, important to life/business, and you can control. Low quality growth is, for example, making soap or cakes or shoes which cannot help you in any conflict and anybody can just ban you from.

Yeah, to drive growth, you need to have high-productivity sectors and that is best determined by the market. Except China has to waste money doing research that has already been done and spend money on intermedaries that are of lower-quality and thus have crappier outputs. Can do, sure. Efficient, no? good for the US? Absolutely.

Yeah, so it proves that warm bodies are not the factor that is critical.

Sweden superpower. Oh right.

And it'll all collapse if they choose a target too big, like China, and make that currency inconvenient.

LOL, China needs the dollar or else its financial system will collapse

For China's rural areas, not for China's metropolises. As I said, China has so much more room for horizontal development.

China grew at <6% in 2H2019. The so much more room for horizontal development is basically permanent rural stagnation and poverty. Amazing from a US POV.

China is ahead in qualify publications as well.

Nope. Nature Index says opposite.

That is simply untrue. You have imagined it as you have many things. Just one recent example is that China has a mach 30 wind tunnel and the US can build nothing close.

US doesn't need hypersonics because US conventional weapons and ABM tactics can overpower all enemy IADS.

You can imagine that but then someone can rebut that even bigger things aren't caught in the US. But the fact is that China grows faster with a lower budget, thus making it more efficient.

LOL, China is still on capital formation phase and even that is slower than all the Tiger peers while the US is leaps and bounds above in productivity and population growth than any other DM.

Your imagination doesn't matter. The US will watch in vain as it fails over and over again to delay China from overtaking it. No country that fits your description could possibly panic the US into its current pathetic state.

The US won't watch in vain. The US will apply shock after shock and then China's growth rate will subsume under the US growth rate as the demographic crisis and global isolation set in

Still nothing as inefficient and wasteful as the US government but with China, it spurs innovation and that spurs the momentum to pull ahead and keep going.

The US is still the most innovative country by a long shot.

The US spends money militarily posturing while China spends money building. What is the cost of a US FONOP to the SCS vs China sending a few local destroyers to follow them?

The miltiary posturing is the building. Virginia Beach and UC Berkeley don't create themselves.

And failing in that effort as it watches Chinese trade climb as China transitions to high quality high tech manufacturing, which, apparently you didn't even know about.

Succeeding as Huawei is on it's last legs and BRI projects go kaput after CIA information warfare and US coercion forces project after project after project to be cancelled.

 

[LesAdieux]

Except, no. 90% of US trade is contained within the Western Hemisphere. The same cannot be said about China. The US is basically autarkic, China is not and thus China would suffer more.

again you just make up numbers. US's trade with China alone accounts for more than 15% of the total.