American Economics Thread

[manqiangrexue]

Except, no. 90% of US trade is contained within the Western Hemisphere. The same cannot be said about China. The US is basically autarkic, China is not and thus China would suffer more.

Except the trade war and the pandemic have proven you wrong. China basically got through unscathed while everytime the US tried to hurt China, it hurt itself. You use your imaginary theory and supposition but we use real life experience.

Yeah, China would start a war (that the US would win) and China would have more casualities and hurt more of its trading partners. WIN WIN WIN for the United States

LOLOL The US loses everywhere. They lost to China in Korea, lost to China in Vietnam, losing ground in the SCS, and for a new low, just lost in Afghanistan to the Taliban, who apparently read Mao's little red book. But I'm sure no matter how badly the US loses, there will be people strapped to a copium mask imagining WIN WIN WIN LOL

Then why is China so mad about the CVNs?

What's a CVN? You mean FONOPS? We tail them, we warn them, we dance, but we get the real results. It's disrespectful, but not really harmful to China.

Then why do even Chinese officials care so much about dollar hegemony?

Don't know what you are talking about. What does "care so much about" mean? What sentence, what quote, what issue?

Nope. In 2H 2019, China's growth rate fell below 6% but the US growth rate kept soaring.

Nope, these word games are exactly what I'm talking about. China's GDP briefly went to 5.8% but American GDP never soared. It was at best 3.1% but fell back into the low 2%. It's stable at best.

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Yeah so in a US/China contest where the goal is to be the hegemon, the US can keep inflicting more damage onto China than vice-versa so the US always win.

This is a completely nonsensical response to a post about the Taliban winning in Afghanistan. The US keeps trying to inflict damage but always loses because China keeps growing and outgrowing the US in economics and tech. The US has never won anything against China, not any war, not in growth/development.

And has inefficient allocation and has growth rates massively harmed.

Growth needs to be solid, high tech growth, not puffy cheap low tech growth. This is China's transition from a large country to a high tech powerful country. You are the only one here inanely trying to argue that developing high tech self-sufficiency is wrong.

It would have been larger if the US didn't do tariffs and the tariffs hurt China more than the US so the US wins.

No, China diversified clients and its trade grew while American trade shrank and American industries struggled with higher and unstable prices from poor domestic substitutes. The proof is in the numbers; China kept outgrowing the US and that's real winning.

It's a smart strategy, adaptive as conditions changed. Now, all Chinese infrastructure projects in the developed world are dead in the water, Huawei's market share is gone in Europe, the EU-China CAI is dead, and that's only the start of China's European market access.

Blind hate is a smart strategy? LOL It only makes yourself ignorant and ill-prepared as you don't understand your foe. America wasted its energy trying to sabotage China while China's superior GDP growth was unstoppable. China's trade with all countries, even those who hate China like India, exploded upwards. China's projects in other countries are to be paid off by them and Huawei is forging ahead with its profits, it's 5G, and chip sufficiency. It's not about immediate profits; it's about quality long term growth and this is just perfect for China's quality long term growth to self-sufficiency.

Most of US history? If the US closed immigration in 1800, the US would only have 100M people. It now has 330M very productive people. Heck, even Alabama has a higher GDPPC than China.

Get out of here with the ridiculous predictions of what would have happened from 1800. The US has its own system and China uses ours. Immigration is not the topic here and not China's pursuit.

So they devalue their own currencies and thus have import inflation. Even better for the US since the EMs print themselves into the ground and that hurts China's exports markets but it doesn't hurt the US since the US is functionally autarkic.

What an idiotic response. If the US prints money and devalues its currency, that's endless growth. If others follow then they print themselves into the ground? LOL No! There is certain production capacity. If the US prints more dollars, it takes more to buy it; if it prints less, it takes less to but it. Same for everyone else.

Nope. The US war machine is responsible for cutting edge research in computing, in materials science and in integrated circuits that make China's lithography and aircraft engines a joke.

China's lithography is far ahead of America's, and while China's jet engines are a weakness, the are sufficient, improving, and among the handful of countries in the world that can make an engine much less an engine in excess of 100kN. On the other hand, Chinese quantum communications, AI, magnetic rail tech is ahead of the US. And China spent far less on these things. China is much faster and more efficient.

And even then, state governments spend so much money on capital formation and now the federla government is only going to spend more. So much capital formation in the pipeline

In the pipeline but American government specializes in waste and getting so little for so much money, and so long time. They have no chance at competing with China.

Nope. Shanghai, Xiamen and Guangzhou will be in shambles but San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle will see life continue as norma.

Nope, all of China's cities will be fine but the US will be in shambles, at least in its pride, but physically as well if it pushes for it.

Nope. It would force all the world to choose between the US & China and they always choose the US (just look at the Israeli desalination plant, the UK nuclear plant, the UK HS2, Huawei, etc, etc). They always always always choose the US because US coercieve capacities are amazing.

Only against small countries. Because a nation chose the US over Venezuela/Iran, that means the same for China? LOL American power wanes by the day. They try to threaten, coerce, bribe and beg but in the end Chinese business is better and people will choose their own interests. Chinese goods power the world. American threats drag unwilling "allies" to sail in circles and quickly go home.

LOL, a few CIA agents caused terrorism in Xinjiang and that caused China to spend billions of dollars on counterterrorism

LOL Gonna talk like that? Chinese/Russian agents hacked the US election, split America in 2, then caused Americans to ransack their own capital building and set fire to cities all across America. If America can ever recover, it is scarred forever.

and gave the US a tool to sabotage the EU-China CAI and a pretext for more sanctions. It cost the US a few thousand dollars and China tens of billions.

The CAI was about giving Europeans more access to China's market and when they messed up, China took it away from them. See how they complain; do you see Chinese complaining?

The US controls this escalation ladder

The US can't control ground that's 3 feet back from where it just stood against goat farmers with AKs. The US is losing control everywhere while China takes control of the future in tech and economy.

 

[KYli]

Oh no, not Minnestota farmers. That's like 0.01% of GDP

If you have basic understanding of economics 101, then you should know that it isn't about the farmers. It is all about food inflation which is the core inflation. When fertilizer, propane, rent, and farming equipment costs increase, then there is a permanent increase of food prices which affect middle and lower class the most.

 

[manqiangrexue]

The US controls all of its allies and can harvest their technology at any time. All the technology transfer is going from TSMC to the United States. American coercive capabilities are beautiful.

Ahahaha, it's nothing but a failing and desperate bully's last resort, to try to salvage a lost fight by gaining some strength through feasting on the flesh of his own allies. It's beautiful to those who long for a bloody pathetic scene. Meanwhile, China's real beauty is the innovative power within itself. All of America's ugliness that was hidden when it was confident and strong, are revealed in its last desperate moments.

 

[Overbom]

Oh no, not Minnestota farmers. That's like 0.01% of GDP

You are not making any sense. Too much rumblings

So if Truck Drivers' salaries suddenly increased 10 times, you would still say "thats like 0.01% of GDP" and that it doesn't matter?

Guess what happens when your number 1 transportation mode's labour is suddenly 10 times more expensive? All goods would shot up in prices and inflation would explode while quality of life for people would dramatically worsen.

Please open up a book and stop talking about things you dont know about. Also check up @KYli answer as well to understand why what your saying is incorrect

 

[Deleted member 15949]

Ahahaha, it's nothing but a failing and desperate bully's last resort, to try to salvage a lost fight by gaining some strength through feasting on the flesh of his own allies. It's beautiful to those who long for a bloody pathetic scene. Meanwhile, China's real beauty is the innovative power within itself. All of America's ugliness that was hidden when it was confident and strong, are revealed in its last desperate moments.

No. America isn't desperate. The US is an evil genius that can make calculated moves to strengthen itself by weakening others. The US stole British technology in the 1800s, Mexican/Spanish/Hawaiian land in the 1800s, German technology in the 1940s, and Russian & Japanese technology in the 1990s and then kept soaring upwards. The allies are America's bitch, they do whatever the US tells them do. Bullies always win. That's why America is so successful. Stealing improves your strength, weakens others and zooms you.

 

[Deleted member 15949]

You are not making any sense. Too much rumblings

So if Truck Drivers' salaries suddenly increased 10 times, you would still say "thats like 0.01% of GDP" and that it doesn't matter?

Guess what happens when your number 1 transportation mode's labour is suddenly 10 times more expensive? All goods would shot up in prices and inflation would explode while quality of life for people would dramatically worsen.

Please open up a book and stop talking about things you dont know about. Also check up @KYli answer as well to understand why what your saying is incorrect

Oh no, one intermedariy that's 10% of prices increased 10%. That will increase one subset of prices that are 13% of consumer spending 1%. That's an increase in 0.13%. OH NO NO NO NO NO

 

[coolieno99]

The US controls all of its allies and can harvest their technology at any time. All the technology transfer is going from TSMC to the United States. American coercive capabilities are beautiful.

1. The U.S. failed to force the Talibans to surrender after 20 years of fighting.. And India lost $ 3 billion of investment in Afghanistan after U.S. left Afghanistan.
2. Xiamen is a beautiful coastal city. It's like Heaven when compare to India.

 

[Deleted member 15949]

1. The U.S. failed to force the Talibans to surrender after 20 years of fighting.. And India lost $ 3 billion of investment in Afghanistan after U.S. left Afghanistan.

1. Who cares? The US is stealing TSMC's technology in broad daylight and no one can do a thing

2. Xiamen is a beautiful coastal city. It's like Heaven when compare to India.

2. I agree, I've been there a few times on business. Gardens everywhere. I still like the suburban sprawl of Houston though.

 

[Deleted member 15949]

No it isn't, otherwise it wouldn't cost 5x as much for the Arizona fab as the fabs in Taiwan. You are not a subject matter expert in this so you wouldn't know what stealing even looks like or what could possibly be stolen.

FDI involves knowledge transfer, including on specific nanotech tolerances and parameters and the US gets it for free because the US coerced Taiwan to give it over, not because TSMC wanted to.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Unscathed? Why was China so mad then? The US hurt China more than China hurt the United States and the US still has millions of tools left.

China wasn't mad; China was ready to fight. Now China doesn't even really feel like accepting America's requests to talk anymore, with its pile of broken tools and its potty mouth.

The Norks don't control Seoul

There was almost no North Korea by the time China entered the fight. It is accurate to say that China beat the North Korea out of the US.

and Vietnam's GDPPC is low low low.

GDP isn't the determination of victory. Control of land is and the US fled in defeat just like in Afghanistan.

The US is winning!

By pushing the goal wayyyy downfield and then imagining.

China is so mad about the FONOPS, and the aircraft carriers and the encirclement. It's so funny.

China shadows and escorts professionally while building our islands. The US is so mad, complaining all the time with no substance, it's so funny.

FMPRC, Global Times, People's Daily, etc.

What did they say? What's the quote?

2 quarters of CY2019 is not brief

Then the US COVID recession must have been very long.

and plus, China is growing substantially slower than other Asian Tigers at similar GDPPCs.

Small entities grow fast with only a small lift. If you lemonade stand sold 4 cups today and 8 cups tomorrow, that's 100% growth. Tropicana can't do that, can they?

America's sabotage is working beautifully because without American sabotage, China would be growing at 1-2% higher.

Says the guy making predictions about the effects of 1800's policy today. America's sabotage hurt itself more; it would be 5% higher if it didn't mess with China. LOL

All the econometrics on the trade and tech war show greater damage to China than the United States.

All the ones you imagined? There's no point in imagining effect that is uncertain; the point is, the US failed to reverse the trend of China outgrowing it.

Didn't argue that. At higher levels of GDPPC, all economic growth is TFP driven growth and the US is sabotaging China's productivity growth.

No, the biggest effect the US has on China is spur Chinese innovation and self-sufficiency. Without it, Xi's MIC2025 was meeting domestic resistance for profit. Now they are working!

American corporate profits are soaring but China is not.

Show the evidence and source. But anyway, China's GDP growth is still much faster than America's, before the pandemic and now.

Huawei just suffered the biggest sales drop in history.

As I said, immediate profits should be sacrificed for long term quality growth with self-sufficient technology. Who would be willing to make this sacrifice if not forced?

Correct. America can simply import more warm bodies and that will mitigate any advantage China has. China can't do that. The US will win.

Warm bodies are of little importance; India has 4x more warm bodies than the US. Knowledge and tech are important and Chine develops them faster than anyone else. The US can't do that... anymore.

The USD is the global reserve currency. They aren't. Too bad, so sad.

For you. It may be the reserve currency but too much of it and it will depreciate all the same.

LOL, even Alabama has a higher GDPPC than China.

China has much more horizontal development to go and much more growth potential.

The US is ahead in biotechnology, quantum computing, AI, software, aviation, aircraft engines, electronic components, chemicals, machinery, it's such a massive list.

Not really, not in AI or quantum computing. China overtook the US in the most scientific papers published, especially in physics. While the US has still some traditional advantages, they are all being chewed up by China's speed. That's what's panicking the US.

Which is why America is no. 1?

What it was in the past, it is no longer.

Nope, the American government is a hyper-efficient government

Couldn't control laughter here LOL You're in your own fantasy while the US spends trillions of dollars on nothing with $40K toilet seats in the military.

run by professional bureaucrats that have beaten every other competitor

Professional liars that only fool stupid people and never faced a country with a large population and large territory like China...

and will succinctly beat China and decapitate China.

Succinctly? That train has already left the station. Beat China? Says the country who lost in Korea, Vietnam, SCS, and decapitate? No, it only does that to its allies. The US might decapitate itself from high blood pressure if it keeps seething from so much hate.