Aircraft Carriers

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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This story posted below was posted in another thread...UK military news

LONDON (AFX) - A multi-billion pound deal to build two new aircraft carriers
for Britain's Royal Navy risks slipping further behind schedule amid continuing
disagreements between the consortium building the craft and the Ministry of
Defence over rising costs, the Daily Telegraph reported, citing sources close to
the situation.
The Aircraft consortium, which includes BAE Systems PLC, VT Group PLC,
Thales and MoD officials should have submitted final price details Thursday, but
missed the deadline, the paper said.
The consortium says the carriers cannot be built for less than 3.8 bln stg,
up from an initial estimate of 2.8-3.0 bln.
Recent guidance from the MoD has been that the cost would be about 3.5 bln.

Missed the deadline???? How can they do that? They need to get off their rears and make a decision about these ships! Right now. Are any politicans putting any pressure on these companies? If not they should be. At this rate it will be 2020 before we see the first RN CVF.:mad:
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
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I've heard the difference in price between the two sides is not much more than £100million, and this is just a bit of last minute jockeying to increase the profit margin for the consortium and this sort of thing goes on with all large government contracts. The press likes to exaggerate as usual to turn a little haggling into a crisis.The consortium is saying £3.8Bn, the MOD is saying £3.6Bn, they will meet in the middle somewhere. When big business says jump, most politicians say how high, and too much is at stake for the corporations involved to let this project fail. PM Blair is behind the project if for no other reason than he sees it as a major reinforcement of Europe's position, which is why the French were encouraged to participate. Both Governments see the CVFs (and the CdG) as giving Europe a degree of independence from the USA, although numerically Europes Naval Forces still won't match the USN they will gain a degree of autonomy and will be able to show Europe is pulling it's weight in any future operations.

The 'Pulling our weight' argument is the primary justification in my view, as it is unfair on America for her allies to keep saying "Oh the Yanks will bring their carriers so we don't need to bother." Being allies means sharing the burden, putting our knecks on the line as much as our allies do. Otherwise the US will soon start asking why they are 'carrying' us all the time, as I'm sure some uninformed types do already.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Thanks Obi Wan for your sane explanation of this situation. Hopefully all sides will come together for the common good and these ships will be built.

Here in the US there is also some wrangling over the price on new weapons systems. It's all part of the "game"
 

Smart_Bomb

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Why do some countries waste alot of money on Aircraft Carrier,if they know that they can be easily be hit by modern day anti-ship cruise missile.
Eg:3M82 Moskit anti-ship cruise missile(Nato SS-N-22 SUNBURN).
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Why do some countries waste alot of money on Aircraft Carrier,if they know that they can be easily be hit by modern day anti-ship cruise missile.
Eg:3M82 Moskit anti-ship cruise missile(Nato SS-N-22 SUNBURN).
Two quick reasons (among others) come to mind:

1) First, in addressing the vulnerability issue you raise...a carrier is not so easy to hit as you imply. They have to be found...and then reliably targeted, and that requires a huge investment itself by a nation in developing the ability to find and target the vessel. And even then, the potential adversary has to get through the vessel's ample escort defenses and point defenses on the vessel themselves, which also is a very difficult and expensive task, with no promise for success.

2) Second, (and this is the real reason) because of the power projection capabilities of a carrier. It allows you to maintain a strong presence...a mobile air base if you will...far from your shores, near your foreign strategic interests and in your potential enemy's back yard so that the chances are you will fight your future wars far from your own shores, rather than on your own soil.

Those are a couple of good reasons why nations who can afford to do so, build carriers.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
INS VIkramaditya reconstruction photos.

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vik3.JPG


GREAT! I have been waiting for and looking for construction photos and those are the first I have seen. It's going to be interesting to see that vessel launched and then plowing the waves of the INdian Ocean. She will be a very capable ship, and a fitting forerunner to the INS own indegionous capability that will follow soon thereafter.
 

IDonT

Senior Member
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Why do some countries waste alot of money on Aircraft Carrier,if they know that they can be easily be hit by modern day anti-ship cruise missile.
Eg:3M82 Moskit anti-ship cruise missile(Nato SS-N-22 SUNBURN).

Because the firepower and range of a single squadron of Harriers/Rafale/Super Hornet beats anything anyone can put on the surface ship. Plus, these can be recovered and rearmed for a second strike.

For the INS Vikramaditya, the non-catapult lanches will definately lower the payload and range of the Mig 29K. I wonder why the Indian Navy just did not buy a steam catapult from the US.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
My man IDonT ask;
I wonder why the Indian Navy just did not buy a steam catapult from the US.

The USN removed the catapults from all it's retired CV's so the vital parts may be used for repairs on active CVN's.. So they are available. But would the USN be willing to sell that technology to the IN? Probally not. Why? The Indians have close ties with China and Russia. More than likey the US is not willing to give up catapult technology.
 

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
The USN removed the catapults from all it's retired CV's so the vital parts may be used for repairs on active CVN's.. So they are available. But would the USN be willing to sell that technology to the IN? Probally not. Why? The Indians have close ties with China and Russia. More than likey the US is not willing to give up catapult technology.

I never thought catapult technology was a sensitive military secret. I guess I was wrong. To think of it, only France is the only nation that have it and they got it from the US.

Is it that difficult to transfer steam from the boilers to the catapults?
 
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