Aircraft Carriers

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Jeff Head

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Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

the point being that once the V-22 AEW basic variant is in squadron service the concept will have been proved and will be harder to cancel. The 'Best' is always the enemy of 'Good enough', and Good Enough
will always be preferrable to none at all.
Agreed completely Obi Wan. And I believe that the V-22, in an AEW role, actually would, at this time, be the best VTOL solution. In terms of speed, range/endurance/ atiltitude, and carry weight, it simply gives the best answer to AEW for VTOL carriers at the present time. We shall see if it is taken advantage of in this manner, but like Fin McCool said, so much money has been invested, and you already have an active duty squadron of V-22s for the Marines, that I would be surprised if such a development were not forthcoming.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

Agreed completely Obi Wan. And I believe that the V-22, in an AEW role, actually would, at this time, be the best VTOL solution. In terms of speed, range/endurance/ atiltitude, and carry weight, it simply gives the best answer to AEW for VTOL carriers at the present time. We shall see if it is taken advantage of in this manner, but like Fin McCool said, so much money has been invested, and you already have an active duty squadron of V-22s for the Marines, that I would be surprised if such a development were not forthcoming.

Indeed. I would like to see a basic AEW variant developed quickly so that it can be put into service as soon as possible, rather than a 'gold plated' version that would take years and cost billions ( thus attracting political criticism and likely cancellation). The Sea King AEW was proposed several years before the Falklands war but being an unproven concept was difficult to gain approval for until it was shown to be of absolute necessity. A basic version is needed to prove the concept in service before we move to something more complex than an Aegis Destroyer with wings (which would probably be cancelled before it flew for monetary reasons).
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

I looked it up and sure enough I found an unoffical site that states that CV-64 was slated to go to Japan in place of the Independence but was in to poor of a condition.

But if this is true why did the USN send the "Connie" on four more deployments without major repairs? Good question.

They didn't want to spend $$$ on junk before its decommissioning. I was being sarcastic- she got "stationed" in Bremerton boneyard instead of Japan.
V-22 is louded as revolutionary, but it's still unproved in the real world. I have seen them at China Lake up close and let me tell you: I didn't feel in my gut it was safe to fly-it has too many eggs in one basket. Will it perform better than CH-47 or CH-53? Not just in speed, but in other parameters? The jury is still out.
 
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bd popeye

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BLUEJACKET comment;
V-22 is louded as revolutionary, but it's still unproved in the real world. I have seen them at China Lake up close and let me tell you: I didn't feel in my gut it was safe to fly-it has too many eggs in one basket. Will it perform better than CH-47 or CH-53? Not just in speed, but in other parameters? The jury is still out.

The jury is out? Since when? Last year in March the USMC/USN tested the Osprey onboard the USS Bataan(LHD-5). The test and evaluation of flight operations went well. The USMC/USN has ordered the Osprey. The first operational squadron has been comissioned.

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Here are some pics taken last March 2005 on board the USS Nassau(LHA-5)
 

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Obi Wan Russell

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The Jury is out on any new aircraft type until it is deployed in combat (possibly as soon as next year for the Osprey). Remeber how many 'experts' derided the Harrier before 1982? I'm also sure there will be V-22 accidents that grab the headlines during the next few years and some 'rent-a-mouth' politician or two will get their ugly face on TV in order to denounce the Osprey and demand funding for it is immediately diverted to their own pet cause. The Wright Brothers first flight wasn't that impressive other than for being the first flight, and they too had their share of nay sayers. The V-22 is new territory, yes, but well worth the effort, and also it's the only game in town. Unless you want to reopen production lines for forty year old Helo designs that the V-22 is intended to replace.
 

bd popeye

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I agree with you Obi wan. After 20 years of R & D. Test flights and sea trials the V-22 is here to stay.

No aicraft no matter how well concieved is perfect.

Jeff sez;
The Osprey, IMHO, is destined for a very bright future at sea, with many very capable and useful naval configuartions.

More than likely so.:) But an AEW variant may only be for export because the USN has opted for E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. With 75 ordered and operational squadrons expected to comission by 2011.

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The way the Osprey folds up looks like it reqires a lot of moving parts. I hope the USMC really does have this type mechinsim figured out. It has been my experience the most reliable USN aircraft were the least complicated.

Reliable= most flight hous per maintanance hours.
 
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Jeff Head

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But an AEW variant may only be for export because the USN has opted for E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. With 75 ordered and operational squadrons expected to comission by 2011.
But the E-2D is for the carriers. If we want a strong AEW platform on a PHIBRON, or a Sea Control TF using a Wasp or other VTOL carrier, the V-22 AEW variant would be very useful. Right now, those type of operations do not have their own ship-borne AEW capability...outside of their own radars or the more limited Harrier or helo radars sent aloft.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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The USN is already deploying the LHAs/LHDs as auxilliary carriers from time to time (when they put 20+ Harriers and a sqn of Helos for ASW aboard in the 'Sea Control' mission) and the addition of an AEW component to that configuration is the next logical step, and one which would give more independence to the PHIBRONS. They could provide their own air defence (to a degree), the Osprey AEWs could provide vital long range detection to the escorting Aegis ships and control the Harriers (especially if they are AV-8B+ versions) in interceptions and free up the CVNs for other missions if needed. For the purchase of a small number of extra Ospreys the USN virtually doubles the number of 'CV's it can deploy independently, and that alone justifies the USNs purchase.
 

Jeff Head

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I like the following pics of the Osprey during trials at sea. Landing and its unique "stowed" configuaration.

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c35-1681-143.jpg


The Osprey, IMHO, is destined for a very bright future at sea, with many very capable and useful naval configuartions.
 

bd popeye

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Obi wan sez;
The USN is already deploying the LHAs/LHDs as auxilliary carriers from time to time (when they put 20+ Harriers and a sqn of Helos for ASW aboard in the 'Sea Control' mission)

It has happened. The USS Nassau(LHA-4) deployed in April 1981, NASSAU departed for a short-notice Mediterranean deployment, and was underway for 68 consecutive days with an all Harrier CVW. I really don't know of any other instances it has happened. I was on the USS America(CV-66) at the time and know when we transited the Suez Canal that the Harriers from the Nassau flew air cover for CV-66.

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Also in an experiment 14 AV-8s's were part of the air wing on the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt(CVA-42) From June 1976 to April 1977, VMA-231 deployed with 14 AV-8As aboard the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CV-42). This deployment demonstrated that the Harrier could be completely integrated into normal CV air operations.

In 1996 the USS America was outfitted with US Army helos as a prelude to an US invasion of Haiti. I did manage to find a pic of the ship loaded with helos..
 

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