Aircraft Carriers

Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

BLUEJACKET said:

I've got bad news for you: they are interested in spending more $$$ on new carriers & other weapons systems rather thasn saving $$$ by using older ships.

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No surprise there. Why save when you can spend like it's going out of fashion, especially as it is someone elses money (ie the US Taxpayers)

Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

Obi Wan Russell said:

Imagine a couple of Forrestal class LPHs loaded with 2,000 Marines and 30 V-22 Ospreys, 30+ F-35Bs and a squadron of attack helos (eg Cobras) ready to sail at short notice.

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I would not hold my breath about V-22s!-

Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

Obi Wan Russell said:

If they were operated in the 'Super LPH' role suggested, then savings could be made by only reactivating half the steam plant for a speed of 20knots (as was done with the Essex class CVs converted to the LPH role in the 60s), requiring a smaller crew and freeing up accomodation for troops, and as the catapults and arrestor gear would not be required less engineers would be needed also. Imagine a couple of Forrestal class LPHs loaded with 2,000 Marines and 30 V-22 Ospreys, 30+ F-35Bs and a squadron of attack helos (eg Cobras) ready to sail at short notice. But as we all know, the politicians will blow the money on something much less useful (like the Air Force!).

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But the reality is what BLUEJACKET sez;

I've got bad news for you: they are interested in spending more $$$ on new carriers & other weapons systems rather thasn saving $$$ by using older ships.

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The US DoD loves to spend money on it's equipment. New equipment that is.

That airwing & assigned Marines for such a ship would make one awesome LPH. In all honesty the only two of the 5 CV's the USN has are probally in good enough shape to be re-activated. Forrestal & Independence. For it's last few years in comission the Constellation operated with three screws because of engineering problems.

CV-64 was supposed to be stationed in Japan but was/is in such bad shape that she got stationed in Bremerton, WA instead. CV-62 & CV-61 - maybe, but how much it would cost operating them in the long run?

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The Conestellation was only in Bremerton WA for yard work(re-fit). She was decomissioned in San Diego and towed to Bremerton in 2003. I was unaware that she was ever considered to be stationed in Japan.

BLUEJACKET said:

I would not hold my breath about V-22s!-

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Why not? As of April of this year (2006), the first operational squadron was stood up, Marine Squadron 263 at Marine Corps Air Station New River, N.C..

There have been problems and there are certainly detractors to the program, despite this, the continued testing and improvements have produced an operational squadron now and the Marines are still slated to take on 350 of these aircraft...and I believe they will, and I believe they will work fine.

I expect to see both ASW and AEW variants of the V-22 in the future.

Obi Wan Russell said:

No surprise there. Why save when you can spend like it's going out of fashion, especially as it is someone elses money (ie the US Taxpayers)

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Well, I for one am more than willing to spend my tax monies on such programs, and believe it is money well spent as opposed to the trillions that have been spent on social engineering programs...but I digress and stray into political areas where I'd just as soon not be. LOL!

Jeff Head sez;

Well, I for one am more than willing to spend my tax monies on such programs, and believe it is money well spent as opposed to the trillions that have been spent on social engineering programs...but I digress and stray into political areas where I'd just as soon not be. LOL!

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AMEN to that. I agree 100%...What ever it takes..spend it!..

I expect to see both ASW and AEW variants of the V-22 in the future.

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According to someone in the know it would takes years to develop an AEW varaint of an Ospery. It has something to do with the rotor wash and the size of the dome needed. Coupled with the general stablity of the aircraft. But it may happen. Intresting link.

bd popeye said:

According to someone in the know it would takes years to develop an AEW varaint of an Ospery. It has something to do with the rotor wash and the size of the dome needed. Coupled with the general stablity of the aircraft. But it may happen. Intresting link.

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Very familiar with the MASC program and competition. Cost cuts, IMHO, are what led to the V-22 AEW variant being dropped. I believe one like the one proposed in that competition could be developed relatively quickly. It would be faster, fly higher, and give much better coverage. It would not require a large rotating dome either.



I believe, ultimately, it is a very optimum option for the sea control, VTOL type carriers.

The Osprey is a great idea, and the military really wants it. All branches. They have put so much money and time into that they can't afford to drop now either.

Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

bd popeye said:

But the reality is what BLUEJACKET The Conestellation was only in Bremerton WA for yard work(re-fit). She was decomissioned in San Diego and towed to Bremerton in 2003. I was unaware that she was ever considered to be stationed in Japan.

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-Yes, that's what I heard from another sailor, I don't remember if he was off CV-64 or not. Now she is good only for parts. CV-63 is supposed to be decom'd in '08 and replaced by CVN-73 in Japan. I read that with the amount of repairs recently done on her it may happen later- in any case, she'll be put in reserve.
As for V-22, it's too early to tell, and AEW can be done by UAVs with less risk and cost.

Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

Developing an AEW aircraft from an existing airframe rarely takes that long historically, it's purpose built airframes that take the time. The RNs Sea King AEW2 program produced two flying aircraft eleven weeks after recieving the go ahead (admittedly it was during wartime) but problems usually arise when too much is required from the finished product (the BAe Nimrod AEW3 being a case in point). A V-22 AEW variant could be produced quite quickly if an existing radar system was installed (eg Searchwater 2000) so that the aircraft could be deployed sooner rather than later. More advanced Radars can then be developed at a more leisurely pace and retrofitted to existing airframes, the point being that once the V-22 AEW basic variant is in squadron service the concept will have been proved and will be harder to cancel. The 'Best' is always the enemy of 'Good enough', and Good Enough
will always be preferrable to none at all.

Re: The Building of America's next "super" Carrier

BLUEJACKET said:

-Yes, that's what I heard from another sailor, I don't remember if he was off CV-64 or not. Now she is good only for parts. CV-63 is supposed to be decom'd in '08 and replaced by CVN-73 in Japan. I read that with the amount of repairs recently done on her it may happen later- in any case, she'll be put in reserve.
As for V-22, it's too early to tell, and AEW can be done by UAVs with less risk and cost.

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I looked it up and sure enough I found an unoffical site that states that CV-64 was slated to go to Japan in place of the Independence but was in to poor of a condition.



But if this is true why did the USN send the "Connie" on four more deployments without major repairs? Good question.

CV-64's offical USN history;