Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Mr T · Oct 12, 2008

bd popeye said:
Obi Wan, tell those RAF Fanboys to cool their jets. Those CVF ships will be built. Period.

Yeah, Obi Wan is right that the MoD signed the contracts for everything. They can pay £4 billion for two lovely aircraft carriers, or they can pay £4 billion in court and look very embarrassed.

Gents what do you think of this article of a couple of weeks ago??

I think Obi Wan has summed it up quite nicely.

harryRIEDL · Oct 13, 2008

bd popeye said:
Obi Wan, tell those RAF Fanboys to cool their jets. Those CVF ships will be built. Period. And I hope that the FAA will be re-sestablished in full glory.

Gents what do you think of this article of a couple of weeks ago??

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

nice to see this thread is keeping up to date

Another oft forgotten issue is the training of Air crew and flight deck crew to CTOL if an Seaphoon ever was adopted as where talking at at least 80 pilots 36 for the Air wing plus 4 E2 for each carrier. How could that be done without leasing a CVN at great cost.

Nice to see their aren't many more contracts to be singed

Pointblank · Oct 13, 2008

harryRIEDL said:
nice to see this thread is keeping up to date Another oft forgotten issue is the training of Air crew and flight deck crew to CTOL if an Seaphoon ever was adopted as where talking at at least 80 pilots 36 for the Air wing plus 4 E2 for each carrier. How could that be done without leasing a CVN at great cost.

Nice to see their aren't many more contracts to be singed

Probably through working with the USN and the French; when the Charles De Gaulle went down for refit, the French borrowed the USS Enterprise from the USN as a training platform.

bd popeye · Oct 13, 2008

Pointblank said:
Probably through working with the USN and the French; when the Charles De Gaulle went down for refit, the French borrowed the USS Enterprise from the USN as a training platform.

Borrowed is not an accurate word.

Actually that was on the USS Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71 this past summer..here's a link to some photos;

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showpost.php?p=85310&postcount=385

and

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Enterprise was used by the FN in 2007.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Obi Wan Russell · Oct 14, 2008

Back in 1969 when HMS Ark Royal was still in refit, 892NAS deployed to the USS Saratoga for CARQUALS over a two week period. As far as I know, no 'lease' or rent was paid. In any future scenario if the RN's CVFs were to go down the ctol route, the FAAs pilots and crew could easily join the USNs training 'pipeline', after all cross decking during excercise was a common occurence up until the end of the 70s. With all the US bases on British soil, they owe us a few favours...

SampanViking · Oct 14, 2008

Obi Wan Russell said:
Great pics Popeye. Good to see one country's leader take an interest in Naval Aviation, pity it isn't Broon! Latest balderdash from Rumour Control HQ (RAF Fanboys to you) is that as a defence cut, CVF02 HMS Prince Of Wales will be axed to help plug the £2 Billion hole in the defence budget. This ignores the fact that the contracts have been signed and were for both vessels. Also the price of the contract covers the cost of renewing the infrastructure in the shipbuilding industry, so cutting one carrier wouldn't save half the price of the contract. Add in any cancellation penalties and any savings would be tiny, rendering the whole excercise pointless. Defence companies are not stupid, and have learned from past defence reviews and cancellations, so that once the ink is dry on the contract the government would gain nothing from reneging on the deal. Big business has a lot more sway on governent than most realise, and a lot of jobs (with a large knock on effect for the economy) are hanging on the carrier contract. Political wims count for less these days than cold hard cash (read votes).

I am rather less sanguine than you chaps and only to well aware of the grand UK tradition of cancelling major projects long after contracts have been signed (and much tax payers money already spent).

With all the extra expense of the City Bail out, do not expect any cash to be forthcoming to pay for the implementation of the contracts or for the project to last longer than the next general election.

harryRIEDL · Oct 14, 2008

Obi Wan Russell said:
Back in 1969 when HMS Ark Royal was still in refit, 892NAS deployed to the USS Saratoga for CARQUALS over a two week period. As far as I know, no 'lease' or rent was paid. In any future scenario if the RN's CVFs were to go down the ctol route, the FAAs pilots and crew could easily join the USNs training 'pipeline', after all cross decking during excercise was a common occurence up until the end of the 70s. With all the US bases on British soil, they owe us a few favours...

but the whole air wing didn't need training as they were qualed on Ark Royal it wasn't like having a couple of hundred crew on Steam cats and arrestors and getting used to the different rules of CTOL 80 green poilets. that would be difficult to add to the USN training program in large numbers as all the air crew would need re training.

How many were part of the detachment on Sara because the FN has only 4 Rafs and a E2 when they deployed with the USN

Obi Wan Russell · Oct 14, 2008

harryRIEDL said:
but the whole air wing didn't need training as they were qualed on Ark Royal it wasn't like having a couple of hundred crew on Steam cats and arrestors and getting used to the different rules of CTOL 80 green poilets. that would be difficult to add to the USN training program in large numbers as all the air crew would need re training.

How many were part of the detachment on Sara because the FN has only 4 Rafs and a E2 when they deployed with the USN

Specifically at the time only the F-4 crews needed to qualify on the SARA as the Buccs and Gannets could use either Hermes or Eagle in 69. In the future scenario, there would be a surge initially, which I'm sure the USN would be only too happy to accomodate (they have 11 carriers after all) and afterwards a steady trickle would be maintained. Not everyone has to qualify at the same time after all, and the US carriers are operating at well below their design capacity at the moment. Adding a whole sqn of (RN)F-35s to a US air wing would not cause any great difficulties in the forseeable future.

Mr T · Oct 14, 2008

SampanViking said:
I am rather less sanguine than you chaps and only to well aware of the grand UK tradition of cancelling major projects long after contracts have been signed (and much tax payers money already spent).

Sampan, I'm curious to know the details of the last military contract worth in the £ billions that was cancelled after all the contracts had been signed. If you want to talk about after the next election (first steel to be cut next year - steel already ordered), throw in when construction has already started.

If the UK government really did pull out, they'd be dragged to the courts by BVT and the other suppliers and made to pay anyway. BVT will go under without the money from the carrier contract. Do you think they would have let Broooun get away with a contract that allowed them to pull out given how long it took to get things moving?

harryRIEDL · Oct 14, 2008

Obi Wan Russell said:
Specifically at the time only the F-4 crews needed to qualify on the SARA as the Buccs and Gannets could use either Hermes or Eagle in 69. In the future scenario, there would be a surge initially, which I'm sure the USN would be only too happy to accomodate (they have 11 carriers after all) and afterwards a steady trickle would be maintained. Not everyone has to qualify at the same time after all, and the US carriers are operating at well below their design capacity at the moment. Adding a whole sqn of (RN)F-35s to a US air wing would not cause any great difficulties in the forseeable future.

but it wouldn't be trickle you wouldn't want to be stuck with an international incident say Falklands take two and only have a qualified 10 pilots out of a fleet of 36 so you can't matian CAP and Strike you want at least a carriers worth of pilots ASAP

Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Mr T

Senior Member

harryRIEDL

New Member

Pointblank

Senior Member

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master

SampanViking

The Capitalist

harryRIEDL

New Member

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master

Mr T

Senior Member

harryRIEDL

New Member