Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Scratch

Captain
I guess it was tough luck for that ship to be built just at the end of the cold war, were defence budgets declined throuhgout the board. Such a project (going nuclear) under that circumstances I guess couldn't be properly persued, what finally caused all the follow on probs. Hopfully they get her back into service on time.
With the new restraints currently I fear a second CV, wich they need, might not come into service until 2020. At that time, France perhaps will already have to look at another carrier to finally replace the CdeG.
I find that rather sad, since outside of the US the french carrier(s) is (would be) the most powerfull. Unless the Brits eventually decide to get back to CATOBAR again.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
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CdG was originally intended to be first of a class of two, the second unit rumoured to be called Richelieu (probably the name of PA2 when that finally turns up). Had they WUASC the French would have gone for a conventionally powered design and got the two ships they needed. Of course they could have SLEPped either Clemenceau or Foch to extend their lives by another 10-15 years and maintaned a two ship CV fleet long enough to save up enough francs/euros for a second new carrier, but the MN's budget doesn't appear to have had adequate stretch to cope.

The MN has for decades maintained a carrier capability that was impressive to look at but less than ideal by forgoing the latest equipment to save money. The F-8 Crusaders / Super Etendard/Alize air gropus used by the Clems were hardly up to the standard of the latest Warsaw Pact types even in the eighties yet they were retained far beyond their sell by dates simply because replacing them was far more expensive than simply overhauling them, and against third world nations they were certainly 'good enough'. The SEM is still in service primarily because of the low rate of production of the Rafale, and they are available in large numbers. Their only real drawbacks are very limited war load and lack of stealth. Still, although not being in the same league as the F/A-18 they are 'good enough' for the task, and an example of how if the RN had been willing to forego the F-4K in the late 60s (retaining the Sea Vixen for another 10 years) and settle for smaller carriers, we might have retained a CTOL CV force to the present day.
 

Neutral Zone

Junior Member
CdG was originally intended to be first of a class of two, the second unit rumoured to be called Richelieu (probably the name of PA2 when that finally turns up). Had they WUASC the French would have gone for a conventionally powered design and got the two ships they needed. Of course they could have SLEPped either Clemenceau or Foch to extend their lives by another 10-15 years and maintaned a two ship CV fleet long enough to save up enough francs/euros for a second new carrier, but the MN's budget doesn't appear to have had adequate stretch to cope.

The MN has for decades maintained a carrier capability that was impressive to look at but less than ideal by forgoing the latest equipment to save money. The F-8 Crusaders / Super Etendard/Alize air gropus used by the Clems were hardly up to the standard of the latest Warsaw Pact types even in the eighties yet they were retained far beyond their sell by dates simply because replacing them was far more expensive than simply overhauling them, and against third world nations they were certainly 'good enough'. The SEM is still in service primarily because of the low rate of production of the Rafale, and they are available in large numbers. Their only real drawbacks are very limited war load and lack of stealth. Still, although not being in the same league as the F/A-18 they are 'good enough' for the task, and an example of how if the RN had been willing to forego the F-4K in the late 60s (retaining the Sea Vixen for another 10 years) and settle for smaller carriers, we might have retained a CTOL CV force to the present day.

I remember reading one MN enthusiast on Defense Talk stating that in the early 80's the French Navy knew that the Crusaders had no combat value left and wanted to replace them with F/A-18's until the Rafale came on stream. They were slapped down by the political establishment who were afraid that buying American would undermine the rationale for the Rafale. That of course was nonsense, France could have leased the Hornets for 20 years and given them back. The author of this post was furious that French politicians had made the MN rely, right up until the end of the 20th century, on an aircraft which should have been in a museum for it's main air defence. If France had found itself in a Falklands situation during the 1980's then it could have been very ugly. For all the Sea Harrier's limitations, people forget that in 1982 it was a modern, state of the art aircraft with a capable radar.

It's a a great pity that the RN and the French didn't combine their carrier programmes in the 1960's. The FAA and Aeronavale could have used similar aircraft types and shared training and maintenance giving substantial cost reductions. The RN could have found it easier to justify retaining CTOL capability and the costs of developing new aircraft would have been less. Sadly of course, this could never have happened when Wilson and de Gaulle were at loggerheads over Britain joining the EU. :( Politics again! :nono:
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
It might make sense for the French to go to a 3 carrier navy, which will allow at least 2 carriers ready for deployment, given how far overseas the French military is often deployed on...
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
When the French Navy first built the Clemenceaus they intended to build an elarged and improved follow on, possibly to be named Verdun, and she was expected t operate a navalised version of the Mirage F1 for the nuclear role. She would have had longer stroke catapults (199ft BS5s as opposed to the Clem's 151ft BS5s) and uprated arrestor gear. In theory had she been built she would have been able to cross operate F-4s of the USN and RN during the 70s, and could even have offered the RN a viable (ie affordable) alternate design to CVA-01.
 

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The Commanding officer and the Executive Officer of the USS George Washington CVN-73 have been fired as a result of the JAG investigation after the fire of 22 May 2008. I'm sure more heads are on the chopping block.

CO and XO fired.

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July 30th, 2008
Navy fires carrier captain
Posted: 05:31 PM ET

WASHINGTON (CNN) — The U.S. Navy fired the captain and executive officer of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier George Washington on Wednesday because of a massive fire that damaged the ship in April, Navy officials said.

Capt. David C. Dykhoff and his executive officer, Capt. David M. Dober, were relieved of duty while the ship is in port in San Diego for repairs.

The two were fired because of practices on their ship that Navy investigators believe led to the fire, Navy officials said.

The Navy officials said investigators believe the fire was started when a cigarette ignited material stored in an engineering room. Both flammable material and smoking are prohibited in ships’ engineering areas.
–From Pentagon Producer Mike Mounte
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The CdeG FN R91 has emerged from drydock. Hopefully for the FN the R91 will soon be ready for sea.

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The step is symbolic for the industry as sailors: Charles de Gaulle came out of his pelvis to reach the dock Vauban, which will take be the next stage of its IPER. De facto, the most sensitive stages - in particular, the change of 32 elements combusibles nuclear reactors - are seen not only as past, but also as successful in time.

It's late November that the aircraft carrier will be handed over to the Navy for a qualification campaign conducted according to NATO standards (as for many years), allowing both to lead the crew to verify that the correct Operating systems of the ship. The building will again be considered as available in Spring 2009 ". This can be interpreted both, noticed the operational, as March or ... mid-June. Until then, no question of launching in "emergency", in the event of a crisis, for example.

Many changes have been made. In addition to work on the reactors - the change of cores requires expertise different from that used for unloading / loading of submarines - the building has also been repainted (40 tonnes of paint) and changes both at combat system as ammunition bunkers, completely revised. The channels catapults were opened and all the systems tested, from top to bottom. The list is not exhaustive: all in all, 80 000 tasks are planned for the IPER, representing 2 530 000 hours of work.

The ensemble has been planned for 3 years. The building will host and the test bench Mermoz II (support for the Rafale F3) and ammunition bunkers and redesigned to take the ASMP-A as the cruise missile-SCALP EG. The transmissions have been revised from top to bottom: 80 km of cable have been installed, as well as new bays satellite, to work with the Syracuse III system. In addition to software modiciations the combat system, a new intelligence center was installed. It will fully benefit from data collected by the nacelles Reco NG. The radar systems have also been maintained, even dismantled.

The ship's visit demonstrates the vast yard and started cables and flexible ventilation buses clog the corridors. The crew as a whole - 1 200 people - was involved, thereby saving, according to officials, around 50% of the cost of labor necessary to IPER. The latter in turn is estimated at 300 million euros. On board, the atmosphere is the pride: the task is complex but it was successfully completed on time.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Man o man..Our CV thread is near death on the vine..Jeez.:(.

Here's a pic Obi Wan will enjoy!:D

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This photo taken during the 1977–1978 deployment of the USS Nimitz CVN-68, or shortly before or after, shows one F-14A Tomcat from each embarked squadron (VF-84 "Jolly Rogers," foreground, and VF-41 "Black Aces") escorting a British Vulcan.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Great shot. I have a pic lurking in my collection somewhere of a Vulcan makig a mock approach to the deck of HMS Centaur in the mid 60s, the pic is captioned "A FDOs worst nightmare, Vulcan on approach!". I'll try and dig it out...
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The USN has awarded a $5.1 billion dollar contract to Northrup-Grumman of Newport News VA to build CVN-78...Who else would they awarded the contract to?..Nobody.

Side bar to the Secetary of the USN..You have the horsepower to change the name of CVN-78 to someting more appropriate ..Like Yankee Station, Fallujah , Coral Sea, Saratoga, or Enterprise..please do so!!

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The U.S. Navy awarded Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding a $5.1 billion contract Sept. 10 to begin construction of the first ship of a new class of aircraft carrier. Northrop's Newport News, Va., shipyard will build the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78), lead ship of the first new class of nuclear-powered U.S. aircraft carriers in more than four decades.

The Newport News yard is the only shipyard in the world currently capable of building the large aircraft carriers used by the Navy. CVN 78-class ships are expected to displace around 100,000 tons with a length of nearly 1,100 feet. The design of the new flattops includes a new flight deck with an improved weapon handling system, advanced arresting gear, a newly developed electromagnetic aircraft launch system, new and simplified nuclear propulsion plants and a new electrical power generation system.

The last 10 aircraft carriers belong to the Nimitz class. Construction on the USS Nimitz (CVN 68) began in 1967 and the ship entered service in 1975. The tenth and last ship of the class, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77), is expected to be delivered to the Navy in 2009.

The new, seven-year cost-plus incentive fee contract covers the detail design and construction of the Gerald R. Ford. Advance construction of the ship began in 2005 under a separate contract valued at $2.7 billion. Total cost of the new carrier is expected to be about $11 billion; Keel-laying is scheduled to take place in the fall of 2009 with delivery to the fleet in 2015.

Northrop also announced the delivery of the USS Green Bay (LPD 20), the fourth and latest unit of the San Antonio LPD 17-class of amphibious transport dock ships. The Green Bay ran its Navy acceptance trials in August and was turned over to the service on Aug. 29.

The ship successfully rode out Hurricane Gustav at its building yard in Pascagoula, Miss., Northrop said. The Green Bay, which will be homeported at San Diego, is expected to be commissioned into service early next year
 
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