Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

This happened back in December of 2011. But i think its just an excuse for the USN to tail close to the Russian fleet.

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aksha said:

the vikram, why are they going in such a zig zag fashion . and at present nato ships going straight at it. instead f going to lisbon why further west from it.acording to the map.

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desertswo said:

Real quick, the Russians lack the ability to do RAS as we in NATO know it. They routinely "deploy" to places and that basically means they get there and then anchor. They don't "patrol" much if at all. Back in '89 we used to do a "drive by" of their anchorage at Socotra in what was then the Communist country of South Yemen at least once per week. We'd blast by at nearly 30 knots and make them all bounce on their anchor chains. So are we concerned that they might sink? Well, their damage control isn't very good so any major casualty that involves taking on water is something to be feared. I'm not sure we would give a damn, but one must admit that a picture of something like their CV going down by the bow while a bunch of USN assets steam around picking up survivors would be major political capital.

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Franklin said:

The article does mention that the Admiral Kuznetsov lacks steam cats and uses a ski ramp for taking off planes. The story about the USN shadowing the Admiral Kuznetsov and her escort fleet in the Mediterranean out of fear that she may sink is true. This happened back in december of 2011. But i think its just an excuse for the USN to tail close to the Russian fleet.

As for the article itself its insulting and condescending towards the Admiral Kuznetsov and the Russian Navy and by extention towards the Russians and Russia.

As for the Admiral Kuznetsov she indeed has a checkered history of technical breakdowns and accidents. She was commissioned on 25 december 1990 and only in 1993 did she recieve her air wing. There has been a series of incidents involving the Admiral Kuznetsov in the years that followed and in 1997 to 98 she went into the docks for major repairs. In the years 2000 and 2001 she stayed at port for two years. Although that may have more to do with financial issue's rather then technical ones. The Admiral Kuznetsov went for a major overhaul in 2006 in order to try to fix many of her technical faults. That overhaul seems to have worked as afterward there are very few to no reports of problems on the Admiral Kuznetsov and she has sailed to the North Sea and the Mediterranean many times.

I think today the problem with the Admiral Kuznetsov is not about that the ship is not being properly maintained rather that the ship's technology is old and the ship is very uncomfortable for the crew. Because when the ship was designed and build in the Soviet days crew comfort was pretty low in priority and the Soviets was lacking in solid state electronics technology.

What the ship needs is a major refit, something similar to the Liaoning. There has been reports since 2010 of a major refit of the Admiral Kuznetsov in 2012 that may include a steam cat on the angled deck and there is even talk of a nuclear reactor being placed in her. But the sources of these reports is from a Russian naval publication and so far no official word from either the Russian navy or government so the entire story maybe apocryphal to begin with. We have to wait and see in 2014 or 2015 rather this refit will happen. But we know for sure that the ship will recieve new multi-role MiG-29K fighters. If the Russians are going to go for a Liaoning style refit it will take them 5 to 7 years to complete. The only shipyard in Russia that's able to do that is the one in Severodvinsk that help to refit the Vikramaditya. But considering the decade long saga and cost overruns with the Vikramaditya i'm not sure how comfortible the Russians will be to hand their sole carrier to them. And the Vikramaditya hasn't come out on the other end bristling with the latest electronics and instead looks pretty much the same as she went in. They just throw in a few computer screens in to the mix. But the interior still looks pretty much the same as that of the ships the Soviets build in the 1970's and 80's. And if the Russians do want to refit the ship they don't have access to the original design blue prints of the ship. China has got them. China bought those blue prints together with the Varyag haul and they paid 20 million dollars for the haul and another 10 million dollars for the blue prints. Its not impossible to refit the ship without the original design papers it just makes it more difficult.

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thunderchief said:

Kuznetsov is like a old grizzly blind in one eye - he may not be in his prime , but if you underestimate him and get too close to his paws , those twelve Granits would turn any ship into blazing wreck

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Bltizo said:

Kuznetsov's problem is the same which is endemic to the Russian navy and their military at large. They simply don't (or rather, didn't) have enough funding to keep their equipment well maintained.

Kuznetsov gets a bad rap for being a piece of rubbish, but I think that is less its inherent design than simply not having the ability to finance its maintenance and operations.
In some ways the liaoning will be the aircraft carrier kuznetsov was meant to be, for it will eventually have a full airwing with a full, professional crew drawn from the PLANs cream of the crop. Even the liaoning's Type 364 radars sit where the kuznetsov's empty mars passant radar panels are. I expect if we compare liaoning's accommodation and facilities with kuznetsov, the latter will be positively spartan.


Liaoning and vikramditya, will both be the inheritors of the kuznetsov's legacy in a way. We will finally get to see what true fully funded STOBAR carriers can do.

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bd popeye said:

Maybe..if they could launch one. when was the last time one was launched? anyone know?

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ATLANTIC OCEAN (Dec. 11, 2013) The multipurpose amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) transits along side the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Truxtun (DDG 103). The Bataan Amphibious Ready Group is underway conducting training operations. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd class Scott Barnes/Released)

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ATLANTIC OCEAN (Dec. 10, 2013) The George H.W. Bush Carrier Strike Group conducts a simulated strait transit as part its final pre-deployment evaluation to achieve mission readiness and the ability to work alongside international allies in the execution of the Navy's maritime strategy. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd class Scott Barnes/Released)

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