Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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cn_habs

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Russians Discuss Future Carrier Plans, Eyeing India

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Russian salesman: "Hey India, did you see that China can land fighters on ships now? You wanna a new carrier too? Unlike the Ukraine we sell entire ships. Of course, we'll also send some extra funds to your off shore accounts and hot Russian chicks for your politicians."

Indian fans: "Thank you Russia! Sure as long as you don't pull another Vikramaditya this time"

Russian salesman: "Of course not!" (walks away laughing).
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
yes Vikramaditya has become a joke, higher up in Indian Navy they are kicking themselves but they ended up putting more and more money into a project just hoping it would pay off, like gambling, they just wanted a return after all what they had spent

by the time Vikramaditya is handed over to India, PLAN will have the skeleton of a carrier battle group together, and there was a time when people used to say the opposite!!

if China starts a indigenous carrier after India it will probably still finish before India completes theirs, PLAN has one up on India in aircraft carriers, and carriers was meant to be Indias strong point
 

timepass

Brigadier
plus India have all sorts of support from Uncle SAM/West & offcourse Russia (XMAS time always), while on other hand China with sorts of EMBARGOS.

CV 16 is actually rebuild by China & its symbol of pride for them without any outside support.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
Non-radio communication between ships is very much in use, a few month ago I had a request for information answered by the German Navy. They still use optic telegraphy (like most other navies), including the capability to send one signal to several ships at the same time. This wikipedia image illustrates one solution:
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From various wars and studies, it's well known that optic telegraphy can be used in the 100-50km range - quite enough for a group of naval ships. A major advantage of optic telegraphy has always been the very limited ability to detect anything outside a close proximity to the target area where the signal is sent to.
As for modern communications, optic telegraphy still enables an undetectable communication for coordinated measures with less undetectable tools.

Russia does use Indian bribery to their advantage, but India also profits from their longterm relationship with Russia and can always switch alignment, with the US and China being no less capable of paying bribes and organizing hot chicks.
Concerning Russian carriers, they have a clear philosophy and tradition of missile ships with ever increasing helicopter component and finally with the capability for fixed wing fighters. The US tradition is one of fixed wing fighter carriers with later additions of helicopters and missiles. Both, the Russian and the US designs, are called aircraft carriers, it's apples and oranges. The Russian designs are not meant for the same kind of operations as the US design and to some degree they are better compared to US LHA (that still lack all the missiles). Aircraft carrying cruiser was not a bad description.
For Russia, the business with India is crucial in order to maintain shipwright capability and all the problems rather highlight how important it was for India to step in and save Russia's skilled labour. I'm sure, China will master a much quicker assembly line than her Eurasian would-be competitors, but I'm not sure, India's choice to support the Russian know-how base was a bad decision from a longterm point of view. It's this Russian base that will be crucial to all Indian carrier developments. Choosing the UK or France instead, would have made them much more US "bed-fellows" (resented because many Indians consider themselves a great power with regional ambitions), a more grabbing alignment than the less powerful Russia. Going down a road of almost all indigenous development could certainly never finance a competence level on par with the Russian alignment, because India is not the economic giant that China is.
The Mistral-class purchase from France adds a lot new input to Russia, not only in amphibious warfare, because of the strong helicopter carrier core of Russian naval aviation. The current Russian work for India is possibly the last pre-Mistral-class Russian carrier that will markedly differ from the new designs after the French influence impact. What trajectory will Russia, China and India then take, after having started from the same Soviet templates?
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Videos of the Vikramaditya facilities inside the ship.

[video=youtube;qO3_sBOcKkQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qO3_sBOcKkQ#![/video]
Popeye, from about 7:40 through 7:50 in this second video, what speed do you think the Vikram is making?
 
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Franklin

Captain
The Vikramaditya its now save to say comes without jet blast deflectors. Is that a serious problem for deck ops or just a minor nuisance ? The Vikramaditya also supposed to have 8 Kashtan CIWS systems on board has anyone seen it anywhere on the video or in any of the pictures ?
 

Jeff Head

General
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She's making about 25 knots.. aaarrrvvv...I'm guessing that's close to full power. good video.
That's what I thought. 25+ knots. Even with their difficulties. Making that kind of steam...able to land and launch their aircraft...I think too many people are making to much light of the carrier.

I predict that the Indians will make a good carrier of the Vikram even with the delays, and that their Mig-29K air wing will work out well for them.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Going down a road of indigenious development could certainly never finance a competence level on par with the Russian alignment, because India is not the economic giant that China is.
And yet the Indians are already a good ways down the indigenous path, even while using Russia for the Vikram. The full hull (less the flight deck, upper bow, and island) of their first indegenous carrier, the Vikrant, has already been launched.

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hkbc

Junior Member
That's what I thought. 25+ knots. Even with their difficulties. Making that kind of steam...able to land and launch their aircraft...I think too many people are making to much light of the carrier.

I predict that the Indians will make a good carrier of the Vikram even with the delays, and that their Mig-29K air wing will work out well for them.

I think the ship still needs its boilers sorting out, in tropical conditions where its destined to operate, as opposed to the Northern latitudes they've been testing, the MiG29s will lose a bit of thrust and the ship will cut through the water less well this cuts into the safety margins. The year long delay in delivery is probably because once they've finished the boiler repairs they can't really test properly in an Arctic winter so have to wait till spring and redo do the trials all over again. There was probably method in the soviet madness to build their carriers in the black sea even though it was blocked in!
 
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