Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

jackliu said:

Is it true that US carrier force sometime operate completely on radio and sensor silence in order to avoid detection? If so, do they work?

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This will answer your questions



And this



"....Concealment and Deception
A combination of obvious if inconvenient passive measures like operating under electronic emissions control conditions and active measures like radar-jamming and transmission of false radar signals was used to hide the allied fleet. They even eluded a Soviet active-radar satellite launched into a low to search for it....."

Several times American carriers have used innovative technologies and tactics to disappear from sea surveillance networks to carry out practice missions against potential adversaries. This Kola Peninsula exercise is but one example

Locating and tracking a carrier is not as easy as people would have you believe

Jeff Head said:

US Systems have redundant operational systems. If the sats were cut off...and they certainly could be...the US forces would continue to operate. GPS and sats are very nice while they are on, but the US is prepared and has the redundancy to operate without them if necessary.

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May I add that in EMCON conditions the E2-Hawkeye would be aloft to relay satellite communications and its own radar picture to the battlegroup so that they could operate in a passive mode and not emit any signals while maintaining full situational awareness. Further line of sight communications would be accomplished via laser between ships. This prevents enemy exploitation of stray signals

And we haven't even got on the subject of spoofing enemy attempts at locating the battlegroup.

Jeff Head said:

US Systems have redundant operational systems. If the sats were cut off...and they certainly could be...the US forces would continue to operate. GPS and sats are very nice while they are on, but the US is prepared and has the redundancy to operate without them if necessary.

In addition, the US fleet and US Carrier groups do in fact operate in EMCOM conditions and train for it regularly...that is where they control and eliminate as many Electronic Emmissions as possible so as to be much harder to find.

Ask popeye about it, who served many years on several US carriers. I am sure he will veryify this.

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^^^ Correct. The USN often trains completely blind with red lights only in certain ENCOM conditions. the back up systems is multi-layered.

bd popeye said:

^^^ Correct. The USN often trains completely blind with red lights only in certain ENCOM conditions. the back up systems is multi-layered.

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A great book that I would recommend for anyone about US Carrier operations in battle, including EMCOM, is the following novel:


It is a bit dated (1992) because it is a convetnionally powered carrier and reflects the Cold War going hot in South Africa, but it goes into very rich detail about carrier operations and their capabilitiers, even in the face of significantly overwhelming odds.

25 glorious years of service by INS Viraat

On 12 May 1987 the 25-years-old HMS Hermes became INS Viraat under the command of Capt (later Vice Admiral) Vinod Pasricha. Born in Nov 1959 as HMS Hermes, INS Viraat took avatar after completing 28 years under the union jack and after having earned glory in the Falklands Campaign of the Royal Navy.
The commissioning signal from the Naval Headquarters said : “Your commissioning today marks an important milestone in the development of our Navy’s blue water capability. May your operational prowess match your gigantic name and good fortune attend on you wherever you may sail. I wish all officers and men a happy, challenging and rewarding commission” The message from the crew of the Hermes read:“Bringing forward HMS Hermes for hand over to the Indian Navy and commissioning as INS Viraat… It is with a mixture of sadness, pride and confidence that we today handover this magnificent ship to the Indian Navy; sadness in that we with our happy memories witness her passing from the Royal Navy, pride in the capabilities noting that she will be in good hands and confident that she will prove equal and worthy of all the aspirations the Indian Navy have for her as Viraat. The Captain, officers and ships company of HMS Hermes congratulate the Captain, officers and ships company on the majesty of INS Viraat and may good fortune attend all who sail in her quest to control the sea and be all powerful."The words proved prophetic as INS Viraat has been maintained and run successfully by the professional men of the Indian Navy for a full 25 years, making Hermes-Viraat one of the longest serving aircraft carrier in the history of naval operations anywhere in the world. This speaks volumes of the Indian Navy’s capability in maintaining and operating ships so as to extract the utmost from them.On the occasion of Hermes-Viraat completing 50 years in service in 2009,
The Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma, who commanded Viraat from 08 Nov 1996 to 13 Dec 1997 said:“The fact that a warship designed in 1940s and built in the 1950s could evolve and adjust to the technological and strategic imperatives of the post war years, the Cold War and continues to have utility in the 21st century is testimony to the men and women who built her and also those who have contributed to transforming her over the years.The ship has over the years truly stood up to its slogan “Any Mission, Any Time Anywhere”
Source: DEFENCE EXPRESS
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Another technical innovation for communications during EMCON conditions was this. Presenting the RAPCAP

Abstract : The RAPCAP underway replenishment communications system is designed to provide rig team-to-rig team voice communication between ships during underway replenishment (UNREP). The system employs a helmet-mounted optical transceiver that operates in the near infrared. Good-quality voice communications have been achieved beyond typical UNREP intership ranges of 75 metres. Because of its short range, RAPCAP is covert and can be used during emission control (EMCON) conditions. The system will reduce manpower requirements, enhance safety, and reduce time on station during the close-in coordinated maneuvers associated with at-sea replenishment operations. (Author)

aksha said:

25 glorious years of service by INS Viraat

On 12 May 1987 the 25-years-old HMS Hermes became INS Viraat under the command of Capt (later Vice Admiral) Vinod Pasricha. Born in Nov 1959 as HMS Hermes, INS Viraat took avatar after completing 28 years under the union jack and after having earned glory in the Falklands Campaign of the Royal Navy.

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She's approaching and will exceed the USS Midway and probably the USS Enterprise in terms of years of Service .


She was commissioned in 1945 and served until 1997. 52 years.


She went from 1960 and will be decommissioned in 2013, or 53 years.

Both the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) and USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) served for 49 years.

The INS Viraat was commissioned in 1959 as the Hermes for the Royal Navy, and then later, in 1987 to the INS. She is expected to serve until 2020 (currently is my understanding). That will be an unprecedentd 61 years!

Now, those US Carriers certainly had many more sea miles on them, and several orders of magnitude more launches and recovereis of aircraft. But the number of years in service is what we are talking about here and 61 years in service is simply phenominal for a post World War II carrier.

Way to go Royal Navy and Indian Navy! She is a majestic old lady of the sea.

The Midway was actually not in service all those 52 years years..Where as she was completely rebuilt from 1966 to 1970.

Midway..Returning to Alameda on 23 November, Midway entered San Francisco Bay Naval Shipyard on 11 February 1966 for a massive modernization (SCB-101.66), which proved expensive and controversial. The flight deck was enlarged from 2.8 to 4 acres (11,300 to 16,200 m²), and the angle of the flight deck landing area was increased to 13.5 degrees. The elevators were enlarged, moved, and given almost double the weight capacity. Midway also received new catapults, arresting gear, and a centralized air conditioning plant. Cost overruns raised the price of this program from $88 million to $202 million, and precluded a similar modernization planned for Franklin D. Roosevelt (CV-42). After Midway was finally recommissioned on 31 January 1970, it was found that the modifications had hurt the ship's seakeeping capabilities and ability to conduct air operations in rough seas, which required further modifications to correct the problem.

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The many faces of the USS Midway (CV 41)....known as the Magic..



USS Midway CVB-41 original configuration October 1945

USS Midway CVB-41 original configuration with air wing. In port somewhere in Sicily 1949

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Midway circa 1962

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USS Midway (CVA-41) at sea with Carrier Air Group 2 (CVG-2) aboard, circa 1958–1959, soon after SCB-110 modernization. Official U.S. Navy photo, USN #1074521.

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Midway after 4 year re-fit at Hunters PT San Francisco CA 1966-'70

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San Diego, Calif. (Jan 10, 2004) -- The decommissioned aircraft carrier Midway prepares to moor at its final resting place at Navy pier where it will become the largest museum devoted to carriers and naval aviation. The ship was temporarily moored at Naval Air Station North Island this past week so that preparations could be made to formally present the aircraft carrier to the city of San Diego. When commissioned on September 10, 1945 as USS Midway (CVB 41) she was the largest carrier ever put to sea. For more information on her history with the U.S Navy go to the following link:

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. U.S. Navy photograph by Photographer's Mate 1st Class Arlo K. Abrahamson. (RELEASED)

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bd popeye said:

The Midway was actually not in service all those 52 years years..Where as she was completely rebuilt from 1966 to 1970.

The many faces of the USS Midway (CV 41)....known as the Magic..

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When commissioned in 1945, she was the largest class of aircraft carriers ever built, displacing 45,000 tons.


From 1955-1957 she was also laid up (and decommissioned during it) for her first modernization. That one added the first angled deck, moved the #3 elevator to deck edge by the Island, gave her and enclosed bow, and added three steam catapaults. Two forward and one wasit cat on the angled deck. She was also fitted with the largest aircaft aviation crane to that date. She came out of that refit/modernization with an extra 17,000 tons, up to 62,000 tons.


From 1966 - 1970, as you indicated, she was modernized again with an even larger modernization. All of her elevators were replaced with much heavier ones and all of them moved to deck edge. Her flight deck was enlarged significantly, as stated. She was given a greater angle to her angled deck, now 13 degrees. Two new, much more powerful cats replaced the two forward cats and the third, waist cat was removed. She received a complete centralized air conditioning system. She received an significant upgrade to her trapping mechanisms. When completed she was able to operate all of the most mordern aircraft and she also gained another 13,000 tons, then displacing 75,000 tons, which was her displacement when decommissioned.


She had become a "super carrier," and would serve as such until decommissioned and striken, finally in 1997.

What a great history she had and what a test bed she was for most all of the more modern aircraft carrier upgrades we see as common and take for granted today.

Great post Jeff.. a few short months before the Midway was retired she was taken out to sea and put through her paces....the old girl did not fail has she maintained a full power run....She could have easily gone on for a few more years.

As part of her decommissioning preparation, the Navy sent out a Board of Inspection and Survey team to assess the ship's material condition and evaluate her capabilities. To perform this inspection, the ship got underway for one last time on September 24, 1991. On this day, the ship successfully completed a rigorous series of tests, including full-power sea trials. Midway trapped and launched her last aircraft that day, with the honor falling to Commander, Carrier Air Wing Fourteen, Captain Patrick Moneymaker, flying an F/A-18 Hornet. At the completion of the day's events, Midway headed for home at 32 knots. Despite her age and imminent decommissioning, the inspection team found Midway fully operational and fit for continued service, a testimonial to the men who maintained the ship throughout her many years. At the end of her career, Midway's last embarked flag officer, Rear Admiral Joseph W. Prueher noted, Midway had "sprinted across the finish line."

Midway was decommissioned for the last time at North Island Naval Air Station in San Diego, California on April 11, 1992. She was stricken from the Navy List on March 17, 1997 and was stored at the Navy Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility, Bremerton, Washington.

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I was there on April the 11th 1992 at NAS North Island..on that day I saw grown men cry.

The Midway lives on as a Museum in downtown San Diego at the foot of Broadway.

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Big Daddy Popeye
US Navy /retired
Midway sailor...August 1973 until August 1974