Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Jeff Head

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I could really imagine the V-22 to be adapted to more roles with it's versatelity.
Though it's handling difficulties and the price may be a burden.
The RN and the USMC would sure benefit from an AEW/C4ISR version of the aircraft. The USN will stick with the E-2D I believe. Maybe they will figure out they need longer range ASW capabilities in some years.
No doubt that the USN will continue with the Hawkeye on the large carriers. But on the new LHA(R), I believe a AEW V-22 variant could be optimum.

As to long range ASW...the USN had an excellent aircraft designed specifically for that...the S-3 Viking, which was retired early (far too early if you ask me). I believe an ASW variant of the V-22 would be great (and much needed) for both the large deck carriers and the new LHA(R) when they come on line.
 

Scratch

Captain
No doubt that the USN will continue with the Hawkeye on the large carriers. But on the new LHA(R), I believe a AEW V-22 variant could be optimum.
I always though the LHA(R)s with their airwing would go to the USMC. Wich is why I related the AEW version to the USMC only. I exspected them to operate from just these vessels. Well, for sea controll those ships would be navy assets of course.

As to long range ASW...the USN had an excellent aircraft designed specifically for that...the S-3 Viking, which was retired early (far too early if you ask me).
Yeah, there sure would be some service life left in the airframes Where the S-3 expensice to maintain? The V-22s will not be really cheap anyway.

I think four days ago the USS Enterprise departed Norfolk with a S-3 SQ though. A rare or last deployment, or a re rise of the Vikings?
Plus one SQ SHornets, 3x Hornets, 1x Hawkeyes, 1x Seahawks, 1x Greyhounds. One CG, four DDGs, one SSN and one fast replenishment ship I think.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Thanks for those pics Popeye, they look fantastic! It's probably a glimpse of the future for many navies!

Thanks,:) Let us hope that this deployment by the USMC on the Illustrious is successful!
 

harryRIEDL

New Member
I'm beginning to wonder if the timing of this exercise is aimed at the new PM Gordon Brown, as a way of reminding him that (the new) carriers are important in the context of our alliance with the US and should not be seen solely as a UK proposition. Perhaps also this will lead to future joint deployments of USMC aircraft aboard RN CVs. In a possible scenario, a future operation may involve two or more US LHA/LHDs which, if they offloaded their Harriers/Lightnings to accompanying RN carriers could then embark their maximum possible load of Marines and helos, allowing the Invincibles/CVFs to position them selves separately from the amphibious force to present less of a target to the enemy. The RN CVs would have a combined USMC/FAA airgroup with two fighter sqns, an ASW sqn and an AEW sqn to coordinate air ops. I remember that when the ASaC7s were first deployed in Iraq two were lost in a mid air collision, but amongst the aircrew was an American officer on an exchange posting. One wonders if the USN and the RN were already exploring the possibilties of such joint ops as an adjunct to the existing CVN force? I'm sure the USMC officers would enjoy being deployed aboard RN ships if for no other reason than RN ships are not 'dry'...

The CVFs are already designed to accept CTOL equipment (catapults and arrestor wires) which is why they are often reffered to as 'fitted for but not with' and in theory adapting the ships for CTOL ops is supposedly a straight forward proposition. The only reason this isn't being done is money; CTOL equipment will mean more crew required to operate and maintain it, driving up running costs compared with STOVL ops. This has been one of the primary selling point of the CVF project, maximum 'bang' for minimum 'bucks'.

sorry Obi Wan this USA trip was on the cards last Christmas one of the officers thought the trip to the USA was their most appealing cruise :)
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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I think four days ago the USS Enterprise departed Norfolk with a S-3 SQ though. A rare or last deployment, or a re rise of the Vikings?

Oh the Vikings are finished. The training S-3 squadron was decomissioned last year.

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Coronado, Calif. (Sept. 19, 2006) - Sailors from the "Shamrocks” of Sea Control Squadron Four One (VS-41) perform a pre-flight check inspection of an S-3B Viking before it’s departure for final take off as the squadron is disestablished. The last S-3B aircraft to leave Naval Base Coronado San Diego, Calif. will be taken to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Ariz., for preservation and restoration. VS-41 will be officially decommissioned on Sept. 30, 2006

The ASW mission was taken fron the S-3's some years ago.
 

Norfolk

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I don't know that an ASW version of the V-22 would be a very efficient replacement for the departed S-3. Granted, the Osprey would have the ability to use dipping sonars which the S-3 obviously couldn't. But even if the V-22 does turn out to be a reliable aircraft, it still doesn't even approach the performance of an S-3. That, and the fact that the rotars on an Osprey make so much noise even compared to a helicopter, submarines may well be able to steer clear of an Osprey's operating area; with the S-3 often flying high and more quietly, submarines couldn't locate sub-hunting planes.

Another thing about the V-22: I am under the impression from some articles that I have read that the Osprey is much less efficient in the hover mode than a helicopter, and may not be able to match a helicopter's performance in that area. Perhaps someone who knows better could disabuse me of this notion.

In any case, I very much doubt that helicopters can handle the ASW mission alone, especially for carriers.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I don't know that an ASW version of the V-22 would be a very efficient replacement for the departed S-3. Granted, the Osprey would have the ability to use dipping sonars which the S-3 obviously couldn't. But even if the V-22 does turn out to be a reliable aircraft, it still doesn't even approach the performance of an S-3. That, and the fact that the rotars on an Osprey make so much noise even compared to a helicopter, submarines may well be able to steer clear of an Osprey's operating area; with the S-3 often flying high and more quietly, submarines couldn't locate sub-hunting planes.

Another thing about the V-22: I am under the impression from some articles that I have read that the Osprey is much less efficient in the hover mode than a helicopter, and may not be able to match a helicopter's performance in that area. Perhaps someone who knows better could disabuse me of this notion.

In any case, I very much doubt that helicopters can handle the ASW mission alone, especially for carriers.
I will not argue that the V-22 would not be as good as an S-3. I wish the S-3 would be reinstated in that role off of our large carriers, and a suitable replacement design and built. IMHO, it was a serious mistake, and a dangerous one, to remove that type of ASW coverage from the carriers.

But I believe a ASW V-22 would be much, much better than the Seahawks (in terms of range, weapons load, endurance, etc.), and is something that is available now as a stop gap at the very least.

...and when it comes to the LHA(R) type carriers, where an S-3 cannot operate in any case...to me it would be a huge addition to those type of platforms.
 

Scratch

Captain
Actually, to me the V-22 seems to have more internal volume than the S-3. Meaning it can store more equipment like computers, sonoboys etc.
And it doesn't have to hover, it can just cruise over the surface, drop sonoboys and use it's MAD. Therefore complementing helos as fixed wing aircraft with the additional capability to hover if need be.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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sorry Obi Wan this USA trip was on the cards last Christmas one of the officers thought the trip to the USA was their most appealing cruise :)

I have no doubt that the cruise was planned some time ago, but Gordon's ascension to the Throne (sorry, I mean taking office as prime minister) was known about back then too, if not officially set. So the timing still remains a little too close to be coincidental for my taste.

I was in Portsmouth Naval Base today making some deliveries to D Lock stores and drove within a few feet of Invincible. She was looking a bit forlorn with her paintwork needing attention and her radar antennae and CIWS missing. The side openings in her hull were fenced off for security but the dehumidification equipment with it's yellow ducting was clearly visible. She is still an impressive sight. Also present in the basin were the RFA's Fort Victoria (undergoing some repainting of her bows) and a couple of 'Leaf' class tankers. HMS Iron Duke was next to D Lock undergoing refit with scaffolding everywhere while moored outside the basin was the Chilean type 23 FF Cochrane (05) resplendant in her new shade of grey. Ready to sail soon by the look of her. Ark Royal was moored further south so I didn't get much of a look at her.
 

harryRIEDL

New Member
I have no doubt that the cruise was planned some time ago, but Gordon's ascension to the Throne (sorry, I mean taking office as prime minister) was known about back then too, if not officially set. So the timing still remains a little too close to be coincidental for my taste.

I was in Portsmouth Naval Base today making some deliveries to D Lock stores and drove within a few feet of Invincible. She was looking a bit forlorn with her paintwork needing attention and her radar antennae and CIWS missing. The side openings in her hull were fenced off for security but the dehumidification equipment with it's yellow ducting was clearly visible. She is still an impressive sight. Also present in the basin were the RFA's Fort Victoria (undergoing some repainting of her bows) and a couple of 'Leaf' class tankers. HMS Iron Duke was next to D Lock undergoing refit with scaffolding everywhere while moored outside the basin was the Chilean type 23 FF Cochrane (05) resplendant in her new shade of grey. Ready to sail soon by the look of her. Ark Royal was moored further south so I didn't get much of a look at her.

A little OT but they were expecting this cruise to be shelved and being in the sunny coasts of the US
has Iron Duke new or the old 4,5 mount [the RCS reduced mount being the new one with the angler shape] i personally like the look of the old one on the Type 42 and the angler one on the more modern ships
 
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