Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Equation

Lieutenant General
personally i just cant see Russia ever making a supercarrier, if the Soviet Union never did it certainly Russia wont be able too

anyhow, just had a quick thought, if Soviet Union even kept the carriers it had already built then this is what they could have had

if the 4 x Kiev Class were better managed and all converted to STOBAR carriers then we would have

4 x Kiev Class each capable to carry 24 x Mig29K total fleet of 96 aircraft
2 x Admiral Kuznetsov class could carry say 30 x Su-33 each for total of 60 aircraft
1 x Ulyanovsk Carrier capable to carry 48 aircraft

so that would give 7 carriers able to carry in excess of more than 200 fighter aircraft

lets say 3 out of the 4 Kiev Class are ready at any one time, and 1 out of the 2 Admiral Kuznetsov class are ready at one time, and Ulyanovsk Carrier remains on hand at short notice would allow Russia to deploy minimum of atleast 5 carriers out of 7 for battle readiness, still accounting to more than 150 fighter aircraft

that would be a formidable naval force, and one that would have been possible if funds were there and more organisation on part of Russia and little bit of foresight and better managment

there is only one country which has the resources and the manpower to make a naval force like this, that is China, and it will be a matter of time before China starts to get into full speed with their aircraft carrier production

if China does with its navy what it is doing with its space programme, that is incremental advances which results in very few errors and a high sucess rate then before 2020 we will see big change in naval tatics


True, but don't underestimate Russia's will to return to their previous military super power status. Russia is an emerging market and one of the BRICS nations. They still have many their expertise in carrier building, all they need is enough money to do produce them and I believe they could. Remember it's much easier to make cash than carrier.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

OT
@ Air Force Brat
Remember the An-22, with four gas turbine engines with nearly 15000 hp driving contra-rotating props? Aircraft are designed to handle the engines they are equipped with. Only occasionally do you get such cases as the engines of the Lockheed Electra, ancestor of the P-3, destroying its wings by fatigue in the 1950's.

Well as a Brat I knew that, you might also remember the electra cum P-3 is a sister to the C-130, and that many of the C-130s were operated in SEA, my Dad was the Maintenance Officer, and a very unhappy camper, and we had recently lost a bird down around Piggot Arkansas, as they were doing stalls and airwork due to spar/wingbox failure. Many of the schoolbirds were early E models and had been beat on quite thoroughly on the short dirt strips in SEA, over the trees, slammed onto the runway and into reverse. I think you would agree if you watch some of those U-tube vids that the C-130s in particular get a lot of abuse, and has done many things the original designers never envisioned. Wing boxes and spar fatique in the C-130 are an ongoing source of heavy depot maintenance, as well as several noteable failures such as the aircraft and crew above. Having said that, the C-130 is a very safe, overbuilt aircraft when operated within its design criteria.

On a side note, I have seen lots of equipment fail, few things quite as dramatically as the A model air tanker on U-tube, when the wings fold up as they attempt to pull up out of a canyon, literally sickening to an aviator.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

i love the twin islands on the QE Class carriers, looks like a true next generation carrier, USS Gerald Ford should have done the same!
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

i love the twin islands on the QE Class carriers, looks like a true next generation carrier, USS Gerald Ford should have done the same!
Interesting trade offs.

The US, who conducts much, much more in terms of air operations from its decks had space on the deck as a premium, and a LOT of experience with conducting those operations from a single island. The have redesigned the island and moved it back as a result of all of that exerience.

The UK went for an arrangement that, while taking up more deck space, they felt would improve the efficiency and safety of air ops by splitting it away and putting one close to the take off and another closer to the landing.

Interesting trade offs and approaches for what the two nations wanted to accomplish.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

I thought I'd post this article here rather than in the US defense news thread. It should generate some discussion.

It appears that this class of ship will need flight deck modifications to handle the JSF F-35B heat produced by its engine. I have previously heard these rumors..but they are not rumors..they appear to be true. hard to believe.

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Wasp skirts major deployments for 8 years

Navy denies problems, cites amphib’s role in aviation tests
By Christopher P. Cavas - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jun 18, 2012 12:22:57 EDT

By its own admission, the Navy is straining to meet its operational demands. Regular deployments routinely exceed the old six-month standard, and increasingly, ships are away from home for seven and eight months. The high operations tempo, particularly hard on aircraft carriers and amphibious ships, is expected to continue for the foreseeable future.

But one ship in that group has been conspicuously absent from the deployed battle force.

Instead of loading up hundreds of Marines and their gear from a Marine expeditionary unit for extended operations with an amphibious ready group — like all other amphibious assault ships — the Norfolk, Va.-based Wasp has been held out of the deployment rotation and generally kept close to home.

While sister ship Kearsarge completed an 8½-month cruise in 2011, and the Bataan got back in February from a deployment lasting 10½ months, Wasp’s longest time at sea in recent years didn’t even reach four months.

The ship’s absence from the front lines isn’t a new development. Its last MEU/ARG deployment ended in September 2004, nearly eight years ago.

So what is up with Wasp?

“USS Wasp is currently configured to serve as the Navy’s Joint Strike Fighter test platform,” Lt. Cmdr. Mike Kafka, a spokesman for U.S. Fleet Forces Command, wrote in an email. “As a result of Wasp’s assignment as the JSF test platform, she is not currently in the rotation of amphibious assault ships participating in scheduled routine overseas deployments. USS Wasp remains available for operational tasking; however, she will remain the test platform for JSF for the foreseeable future.”

But the JSF testing mission began only last year. A Marine Corps F-35B short-takeoff, vertical-landing aircraft — a model that eventually will operate from all assault ships — made the first JSF landing on the ship Oct. 3, the first day of about two weeks of tests that month. No more JSF flights have since taken place from the ship, and none is scheduled this year. Flight tests of the new jet aren’t scheduled to resume until the summer of 2013.

The dedicated JSF mission might explain why Wasp hasn’t deployed recently. But why didn’t Wasp deploy between 2005 and the advent of the JSF tests in 2011?

Spokesmen in several Navy and Marine Corps commands repeatedly declined to answer that question, pointing to the JSF test mission. The decision to use the ship in that role, Kafka said, was made in 2009.

“That’s a CYA [cover-your-ass] reason. That is not the reason it’s not deploying,” said one retired Marine general. “It doesn’t seem to make sense to keep one of these ships out of the deployment rotation for so many years.”

Several sources privately echoed those thoughts, suggesting that something more fundamental is wrong or deficient with the ship. Some rumors suggest a deficiency in the ship’s combat system.

The Navy adamantly denies any major defect or operational limitation on Wasp.

“We are not familiar with any deficiencies in the combat system,” said Chris Johnson, a spokesman for Naval Sea Systems Command.

To be sure, Wasp has not been an idle ship. Stretching back to 2004, the big gator conducted several rounds of testing with the MV-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, and ferried 10 of the planes to Iraq in 2007. It carried out several disaster relief and humanitarian missions, including a run to Lebanon in 2006 and Nicaragua in 2007, exercised in the Caribbean, and made a Southern Partnership Station deployment to Central and Latin America in 2009-10. Wasp hosted dozens of media representatives this winter while taking part in the huge Bold Alligator amphibious exercise off the U.S. East Coast. And through it all, Wasp has routinely represented the Navy and Marine Corps at numerous festivals stretching from the Gulf Coast to Nova Scotia, during which thousands of civilians have toured the huge ship.

“Recurring community relations events such as Fleet Week New York and War of 1812 events in cities like Baltimore are also service requirements, and in most cases an [amphibious assault ship] would be tasked to support these events regardless,” said Lt. Col. Matt Morgan, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Command in Norfolk.

“As it happens,” he added, “the Navy has identified efficiencies associated with a single vessel being assigned to meet these service requirements, which range from routine aviation training (e.g., landing qualifications for MV-22 aircrew) to ongoing naval community relations initiatives.”

The dedication of a single ship to an ongoing test program is a rare luxury in today’s Navy. In Hawaii, the cruiser Lake Erie serves as the test platform for Aegis ballistic-missile defense development and, while still combat effective, is engaged in virtually continuous software upgrades and live-fire tests for the program. Its crew also is familiar with the needs of the development effort.

But most ships involved in test programs take on the role for only a brief period before resuming their normal duties.

And while all the Navy’s amphibious assault ships will ultimately operate the F-35B, none, including Wasp, is fully configured for the aircraft’s operation. Wasp, however, already features several JSF-specific alterations, including electrical power modifications, expanded weapons handling and storage, provisions for a new automated logistics system and flight deck modifications.

The October tests also showed the need for more changes to adapt to the high heat thrown off by the F-35B’s engine exhaust aimed directly at the deck, and the relocation or shielding of numerous topside fittings.

More work is scheduled to begin on Wasp this fall to repair and modify the ship before flight operations resume next year. All Wasp-class assault ships and the new America-class ships will receive the modifications, estimated to cost about $68 million per ship.

But the JSF test role didn’t satisfy at least one congressional source contacted for this story.

“The F-35B hasn’t been around that long to test, and the history with this goes longer than the time the plane was available,” said one congressional analyst. “That can only be the excuse for the most recent time period.”

The analyst pointed to the debates about looming budget cuts, and the need to justify retaining major assets.

“If people are worried about a hollow force, this is a hollow ship,” the analyst opined.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Only cost $68 million per ship for deck modification is not too bad.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

as far as im concerned Royal Navy could not be in a better position, however the absence of new generation of LHD and LPD is something that should be addressed, amphibious assualt ships are valuable tools

Royal Navy currently has or is planning

2 x QE Carriers
6 x Type 45 DDGs
13 x Type 26 FFGs
4 x MARS Tankers
7 x Astute Class Submarines in addition to 4 x Vanguards SSBNs already in service

in my opinion we should have got

2 more Type 45 DDGs and 2 more MARS Tankers, funny thing is, both orders were cancelled that was actually the original plan, for 8 x Type 45 DDGs and 6 x MARS Tankers

and also 2 new bigger LHDs and 2 new LPDs

however we only have HMS Ocean LHD and 2 LPDs one which is in high state of readiness not serving frontline missions

Royal Navy needs a amphibious assault ship which is designed to carry V-22 Ospreys, this would allow the QE Carriers to act as fully functionally aircraft carriers for F35 use only

having said that RN is about add something like 300,000 tons to its fleet in a short amount of time (2 x QE Carriers and 4 x MARS Tankers, MARS are 37,000 ton each) by any Navys standards that is a formidable naval fleet probably second only to USN

I mean 11 Nuclear subs is no joke providing Tomahawk also
 
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