Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

asif iqbal said:

Thanks for the clarification Jeff, also whats the big oval shape that runs through the Nimitz carrier?

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That is simply you seeing all the way through the hanger deck where both blast doors on the two elevators on both sides are open. The Nimitz class has four total elevators and there are two directly across from each other aft of the island there.

So, that "oval shape" is simply you being able to see through the openings of those two elevators because they both are open at the same time across from one another and the picture was taken from the side.

Thanks again Jeff, pretty big blast doors, a good defence against a incoming anti-ship missile, just open both the doors and let the missile go right through, "sarcasm"

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asif iqbal said:

Thanks again Jeff, pretty big blast doors, a good defence against a incoming anti-ship missile, just open both the doors and let the missile go right through, "sarcasm"

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Getting back to the Vikramaditya and the contention that her lifts are a major obstacle that some feel are simply too much to be overcome.

Remember the Indians have been operating carriers since 1961 with the old Vikrant, a WWII era Majestic class carrier, the HMS Herules, they bought and then used until 1997.

She operated helos, Harriers, and that old French prop driven ASW aircraft. Take a look at her as a museum and notice where the elevators are located:



The Indians already know how to operate aircraft carriers with these issues. Now, the next Vikrant, will not have such an issue.



Elevators will be deck edge located (as they should) with a lot more room for parking and handling aircraft on deck during launch.

Re: Does india really need aircraft carriers

I think that Indian Naval Doctrine calls for a Carrier Vessel Navy, maybe two aircraft carriers, nothing is arguable taking poverty or other subject as issue, until she can effort to maintain that, this is logical as per threat perspective, other option is to review Indian Naval Doctrine......as simple as that.

680 ton lower bow section fitted to the USS Gerald R. Ford which is now over 75% complete.

She is now complete below the waterline from stem to stern.

In addition, along her flight deck, several sections of the flight deck have already been laid.

Jeff Head said:

Then, by that definition, every carrier has "fatal" flaws because they all can have accidents that cause fatalities and potentially lead to the loss of the vessel...and not due to any enemy action. The US has suffered such accidents and you cannot design them out because you are dealing with loading jet aircraft with high octane fuel and explosive ordinance that at anytime, anywhere, no matter what the deck layout is, can suffer an accident that can cause such incidents.

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A correction, Jeff. High octane fuel went out with the piston engines and we were very happy to see it go. Gas turbine engines use kerosene or similar. USN gas turbine fuel is called JP-5 IIRC.

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Scratch said:

Wow, great pic Jeff, that is really massive. And sad to see how far things have declined in europe generally. Only one full fledged carrier left over here.
Btw, anyone here having any knowledge of how things may go on in France regarding a PA2 after the election? Is a decision still outstanding, and if so what does the timetable look like? Or is the project pretty much dead for now?

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Spain and Italy, both with small flattops, are in deep financial trouble and it is reasonable to expect cuts in the navy budgets of these countries might lead to the loss of these ships. France is the next financially weak country so better hope that they can continue to maintain CdG and forget about PA2 for the next ten years.

delft said:

A correction, Jeff. High octane fuel went out with the piston engines and we were very happy to see it go. Gas turbine engines use kerosene or similar. USN gas turbine fuel is called JP-5 IIRC.

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High Octane was certainly an incorrect use of terms...certainly JP-4, JP-5, and JP-8 are not that..and thanks for pointing out that needed correction.

However, my point was that they are dangerous, combustable fuels.

JP-5 is a high flash point kerosene that will certainly ruin your day if an accident, like those that have occurred in the past aboard US carriers, were to happen. And despite great policies and procedures to prevent them, they could still occur again.

It's the nature of the equipment and fuel they use. That was the point, and JP-5 or the others does not negate it, though they are certainly not "high octane."

Re: Does india really need aircraft carriers

Apong said:

I think that Indian Naval Doctrine calls for a Carrier Vessel Navy, maybe two aircraft carriers, nothing is arguable taking poverty or other subject as issue, until she can effort to maintain that, this is logical as per threat perspective, other option is to review Indian Naval Doctrine......as simple as that.

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Their doctrine actually calls for three. The Vikram followed by two Air Defense Ships (ADS), the Virant first and then the second one, which is suppoed to be larger and potentially CATOBAR.

We shall see if they produce them, but they are certainly going to have the two relatively quickly.

Re: Does india really need aircraft carriers

Jeff Head said:

Their doctrine actually calls for three. The Vikram followed by two Air Defense Ships (ADS), the Virant first and then the second one, which is suppoed to be larger and potentially CATOBAR.

We shall see if they produce them, but they are certainly going to have the two relatively quickly.

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I am not sure but maybe it is two operational carriers at one time while the third at dockyard for maintenance/servicing/repair/construction/upgrade. IAC-2 is still not in picture, but Viraat is likely to be in service till 2018-2020, by the time Viraat retires IAC-1 can enter active service with the namesake of Vikrant II the second in its class in the mean time and IAC-2 should take shape which may replace the Vikramaditya in the future.

IAC-2 till now is not named, it can be named as Viraat II or might bear a new name.