Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Jeff Head said:

Several countries are already involved with and have spent money on the F-35 (JSF) program. If a successful F-35B is produced, that alone will significantly improve the capabilities of the Italian and Spanish carriers.

The QE's will embark the F-35C variant which will be a significant improvement for them as well over their historical harrier air arm, and the QEs themselves (of course) will be a huge improvement over thee older Invincible class. That was my meaning with the above statement.

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The UK is building twice as many QEs as it can pay for. It is trying to sell at least one. But to whom?

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

delft said:

The UK is building twice as many QEs as it can pay for. It is trying to sell at least one. But to whom?

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I will be very surprised if that sale ever goes through. I believe the UK will end up keeping both.

But...like with other things we speak of on these boards, time will tell us within the next few years.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

I would think that is because no other country would want to own such a hybrid carrier.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

delft said:

I would think that is because no other country would want to own such a hybrid carrier.

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Hybrid? , 65,000 tons and full fledged carriers.

How do you see them as Hybrids?

It may be true that the 1st will have to wait for its air wing...but that does not mean it's a hybrid, it just means it will wait to have the air wing until the aircraft can be procurred.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

The ships are intended to launch amphibious operations. That accounts for a considerable part of their displacement. At the same time you cannot launch hovercraft and non VTOL aircraft at the same time. Besides the UK or any, hypothetical, buyer of one of the ships is unlikely to be able to pay for the war implied by the use of the ship for amphibious operations. So this looks like a useless hybrid.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

delft said:

The ships are intended to launch amphibious operations. That accounts for a considerable part of their displacement. At the same time you cannot launch hovercraft and non VTOL aircraft at the same time. Besides the UK or any, hypothetical, buyer of one of the ships is unlikely to be able to pay for the war implied by the use of the ship for amphibious operations. So this looks like a useless hybrid.

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These carriers are not built to or intended to function as Amphibious assault vessels. They have no well deck. Their displacement is based completely on their being full deck aircraft carriers.

They were not built to be "hybrids" but full deck, fixed wing, aircraft carriers.

Now, there has been some talk, as a result of the F-35Cs not being ready for the 1st one, to have the first one act as a helo carrier and do air assault operations until the aircraft are available. But that is purely a scheduling and planning issue and has nothing to do with their design.

They were not designed or built to be hybrid amphibious vessels like the with a well deck, LCACs or landing craft.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

depends on UK/Europe's economic situation and future threat assessment. If sold cheap enough Australia MAY purchase one but that 8-10 years from now so just pure speculation. Everyone is a tad nervous with PLAN's naval dominance in the Pacific region including Australia.
By the time the 2nd QE CV is commissioned PLAN may very well have three carriers at sea. They are beefing up their Navy. Australia is also in a better position financially compared to the UK and Europe. They're also a level III partner in the JSF program.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

delft said:

The ships are intended to launch amphibious operations. That accounts for a considerable part of their displacement. At the same time you cannot launch hovercraft and non VTOL aircraft at the same time. Besides the UK or any, hypothetical, buyer of one of the ships is unlikely to be able to pay for the war implied by the use of the ship for amphibious operations. So this looks like a useless hybrid.

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I'd like to echo Jeff's question; inwhat way do you see these ships as hybrids? The design is geared towards CTOL carrier ops and always was. Even in the days of STOVL, they were CATOBAR carriers without the cats and traps (for political reasons). No well deck, no landing craft hanging from davits, and they have never had hovercraft as part of their operation. The only concession to amphibious operations aboard the ships is they are designed to adjust their accomodation to cope with Royal Marines which they can land by helicopter; as with the previous Invincible class they can operate in the LPH role if required. The interior corridors and companionways have been widened (as in the Albion class LPDs and HMS Ocean) to ease the movement of fully equipped Commandos to the flight deck. Hardly enough of a change to call them 'Hybrids'. especially as the Type 45 destroyers have this feature too (and the ability to carry and deploy up to 60 commandos).

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Obi Wan Russell said:

The design is geared towards CTOL carrier ops and always was. Even in the days of STOVL, they were CATOBAR carriers without the cats and traps (for political reasons).

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Obi Wan, what is the status of the French PA2 carrier? Are they any closer to approving it and cutting first steel?

Last I heard they were looking at a design that was somewhat larger, at 75,000 tons.

Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Here's the big one on that "out too nuke or not too nuke?"