Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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tomcat21

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England's Carriers!

Popeye, I was wondering of both of the QUEEN ELIZABETH class carriers will be used as fleet carriers. I have been hearing debates and statements that the admirals of the RN have to use PRINCE OF WALES as a helicopter only ship. That in my mind and strategists around the world kills the ability of the QUEEN ELIZABETH back up idea when she is in refit. Is this true or are these statements unsubstantiated?

Plus are there any new updates about both of India's carrier projects?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Re: England's Carriers!

Popeye, I was wondering of both of the QUEEN ELIZABETH class carriers will be used as fleet carriers. I have been hearing debates and statements that the admirals of the RN have to use PRINCE OF WALES as a helicopter only ship. That in my mind and strategists around the world kills the ability of the QUEEN ELIZABETH back up idea when she is in refit. Is this true or are these statements unsubstantiated?

Plus are there any new updates about both of India's carrier projects?

All I know about the IN CV project is that they are still waiting for the Russian to finish their CV and their indigenous CV is in the stage of the first modules being assembled. And that was some time ago.

Now...There's always rumors about the QE2 class. Obi Wan can better answer that than I can. I know there was a twisted article a few months ago claiming the RN was giving up one of it's CVs..I think Obi Wan responded to that.

As posted by Obi Wan on 12.23.2009 in this forum

Thanks for the support. Just for the record, don't believe the stories about one of the QEs being axed, downgraded to an LPH or sold to India. All pure BS from the fevered minds of bored and ill informed journos. Both QE class will be built, both will be completed to full operational capability and both will be commissioned into the RN. At present, the first tranche of F-35Bs is likely to number around 60 aircraft, to provide IOC by 2018 which will mean a single air group (2-3 frontline sqns plus OCU and attrition spares). This was always the plan though, that there would be one 'on call' carrier available to deploy at short notice, and the second would either be in refit or at longer notice to deploy, as relief for the first carrier or if needed as a 'mega LPH' (a capability designed into both ships from the start, just as with the Invincible class). There is always the possibility of buying more F-35Bs when finances improve several years from now, as the production lines will be running for a long time yet. At present, The UK has placed orders for only three F-35Bs as part of the trials programme. We are also the only tier 1 partner in the JSF programme, so in effect we (the UK) will be getting our Lightnings virtually free once profits from global sales are taken into account...

Annouced a few days ago, one Harrier GR9 sqn is to disband (likely to be IV sqn) leaving 1sqn and the NSW (800/801NAS) as well as the Harrier OCU 20 sqn, which will have to move down the road to RAF Wittering as RAF Cottesmore is to close in a couple of years. An OSD for tha Harrier force has been suggested as 2016, but this is two years before the F-35B is due to reach IOC so expect this date to be revised especially after next years change of government...

Under current plans the RAF's Merlin HC3/3a force is to be transferred to the CHF and 'marinised' (folding rotors and tails, plus tie down points) to replace the current Sea King HC4/HAS6Cs which are wearing out after thirty years of service (many of those in service today served in the Falklands in 82!). The RAF RW sqns will become all Chinook with about 70 airframes, the RN will operate only Merlins (HM2s for ASW, HC4s for the CHF and probably ASaC5s for AEW) and Lynx Wildcats for DDG/FFGs. The Army Air Corps will operate a mix of AH-64D Apaches and Lynx Wildcats. The Sea Kings are due out of service now by 2016, though of course reality has a habit of getting in the way...

Currently the RN has 42 Merlin HM1s in service, 30 of which are to be upgraded to HM2 standard. originally the plan was to upgrade 38, but the options for the last 8 were dropped. These airframes are now in line to take over from the Sea King ASaC 7s currently in service with 849, 854 and 857 NAS, but 8 is insufficient to replace the 13 SKWs in service. As there are twelve Merlins available, I think it more likely that is the number to be converted. Certainly the RN has been keen to demonstrate the utility of the ASaC force beyond traditional carrier AEW by deploying the two frontline sqns away from the carriers at every opportunity, one sqn is even now in Afganistan, where the Radar has proved very useful over (the very flat and barren) land in spotting the Taleban.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Thanks Popeye, I was going to reply myself but by re iterating my earlier post you seem to have it well covered! Most of the negative press reports regarding defnece matters and naval ones especially on this side of the pond come from the Guardian, a paper slightly to the left of chairman Mao! They often quote 'sources within the MOD' probably meaning the office cleaners! They have a long track record of getting it wrong but being believed by the doom and gloom merchants anyway...

Here's some pics of QE under construction, work is progressing well all around the country according to latest (reputable) reports. When HMS QE is in refit or otherwise 'off duty', HMS Prince of Wales will be the 'on call' carrier in the same way that the current Illustrious and Ark Royal alternate the duty now. Also in this month's Warships IFR magazine there is an interview with 1SL Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope, in which he mentions that a replacement for HMS Ocean is too far off to consider at present, suggesting that she will be run on into the early 2020s at least. The CVF's also have the capacity to act as LPHs if required, again mirroring the capability of the Invincibles they will replace. Flexibility is the key feature of all modern carriers, they are most certainly not one trick ponies...
 

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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You are welcome Obi Wan.

Flexibility is the key feature of all modern carriers, they are most certainly not one trick ponies...

So true so true..Witness the USS Carl Vinson CVN-70 acting in a humanitarian relief role shortly after the Haitian earthquake in January. Her air wing beached in Jacksonville CVN-70 headed to Haitian waters with 19 helos, CH-53s & SH-60s.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Operations like those which the Carl Vinson is currently engaged in off Haiti are the perfect illustration of the true peacetime value of carriers in particular, and Navies in general. Haiti has only one international airport, which is buckling under the strain of all the relief flights. Carriers have the flexibility to re role at short notice and provide an extra 'airbase', albeit primarily for helos as opposed to large transport aircraft, but in disaster relief these are vitally important to rescue efforts. The CVFs are designed with exactly this kind of operation in mind, and will no doubt be engaged in many relief efforts in the future. As such carriers are an excellent way of earning 'Brownie points' for the nations that own them on the international stage. China's recent anti piracy efforts off Somalia are an example of the beginning of such 'out of area' deployments. Once Varyag is commissioned, it won't be long before she 'shows the flag' beyond Chinese waters...
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Here's a list of USN & USNS ships assisting in Haiti

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Haiti Humanitarian Aid/Disaster Relief
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USS Bataan (LHD 5)
USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43)
USNS Comfort (T-AH 20)
USS Sacagawea (T-AKE 2)
USNS Grasp (T-ARS 51)
SS Cornhusker State (T-ACS 6)
SS Cape May (T-AKR 5063)


Operations like those which the Carl Vinson is currently engaged in off Haiti are the perfect illustration of the true peacetime value of carriers in particular, and Navies in general.
True but CVN-70 recently left Hatian waters to continue on here trek to her new home port in San Diego.

In fact she was or may still be in Rio right now..

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RIO DE JANEIRO (Feb. 26, 2010) The aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) anchors off the coast of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil for a port visit as part of Southern Seas 2010 and a scheduled homeport shift. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Daniel Barker/Released)
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I'm trying to liven things up in this long standing thread!!

Operations like those which the Carl Vinson is currently engaged in off Haiti are the perfect illustration of the true peacetime value of carriers in particular, and Navies in general.

The Italians join in!

All photo credit goes to the Italian Navy. Excellent photos!

These photos really show off the true versatility of an CV...

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On January 18,2010 the Italian Navy aircraft carrier Cavour departed from La Spezia,IT loaded with 6 Helicopters, several trucks, cranes, bulldozers, a few armoured cars just in case, and several tons of material. A combat engineer company and a force protection platoon were also on board.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I'm not the smartest guy in the world but compare the island of the IN Cavour and the USS Makin Island..humm....

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IN 550 Cavour en-route to Haiti January 2010
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PACIFIC OCEAN (Dec. 5, 2009) An AV-8B Harrier assigned to Marine Attack Squadron (VMA) 311 takes off from the amphibious assault ship USS Makin Island (LHD 8).
 

Neutral Zone

Junior Member
Great to see those pics of the Cavour, she looks like a really fine ship! She is the sort of ship that we are going to see a lot more of in recent years, a hybrid VSTOL CV/LPD which will be perfect for the requirements of many nations. You get a good range of capabilities which is better than having a single specialized type, apart from the US nobody needs to able to land 2,000 marines on a defended shore or carry out round the clock air operations. It's the range rather than depth of capability that Cavour type ships give you that is enabling nations like Australia to get back into the carrier game.
 
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