Aerospace Industry in Latin America

t2contra said:

b787,

You are doing a good job of keeping people like me informed of developments there. Never knew they, other than Brazil, have such capabilities.

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Well do not worry, Brazil is known internationally because they have the most developed aerospace industry in Latin America, and they are known because their Embraer aircraft are in many countries, and are well sold.

Mexico and Argentina had good starts, Mexico in WWI, had from tanks to aircraft built at the workshops of TNCA, Argentina was even more famous because they built jet fighters in 1947.

In 1922, Mexico could had started an aerospace industry that in 2015 could had been like France`s; and since 1947, Argentina could had done the same, they could had rival Sweden in 2015.

Their failure is based in their policies.
This is the Serie H fighter, this had an Engine made and designed in Mexico, it was designed in Mexico in the the time period of 1915-1922

Why Brazil succeed?

The answer is on their policies, in Latin America all our aircraft have to be civil because we do not have large military budgets, with the relative exception of Brazil and we are prone to be pressured by England and the US to stop doing military aircraft.

In Mexico`s case, the US pressured (economically and politically) Mexico to stop designing and building military aircraft in the 1930s, by 1940, the Mexican designer Lascurian, thought to build civil aircraft, but he died in 1957 flying the Aura one of his creations and his company halted work in aviation.

This is the sport an aircraft designed in Mexico in 1940 when Mexico tried to move to the civil aircraft market





Embraer has succeed, because they had a clear and coherent policy, they sell and export, they involve their clients, they use top technology and their governments have supported a bit their success in few words their main goal is economic success by designing aircraft that supply a real need at a good price and have little possibility of embargos.

Nowadays, Mexico has moved to a different policy, in Mexico they have invited many american and European aerospace companies to build and design aircraft in Mexico, Mexico does not demand any tech transfer, neither forces them to use Mexican providers, the Mexican policy is extrictly based upon the market, if a Mexican company makes the good with the quality and price the foreign company demands then they provide their product.

here we see Mexican workers in the Bombardier Plant in Queretaro Mexico working on Bombardier aircraft fuselages.

IMHO Argentina would've rivaled many European aerospace agencies today had the country been managed right in the last 50 years and especially in the last 30. They had a robust economy, great talent and just like the US, many highly skilled engineers, scientist etc migrated (escaped) to Argentina post war after the collapsed of the 3rd reich.

kwaigonegin said:

IMHO Argentina would've rivaled many European aerospace agencies today had the country been managed right in the last 50 years and especially in the last 30. They had a robust economy, great talent and just like the US, many highly skilled engineers, scientist etc migrated (escaped) to Argentina post war after the collapsed of the 3rd reich.

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Argentina has a big problem, they have some military programs and they fought a war in 1982, so similar to Mexico in 1922, the international pressure (British and American pressure mainly) meant the Condor missile and the PAMPA programs were halted in the 1990s.

Corrupt politicians and international pressure meant Argentina could not continue, besides Argentina has a small military budget.

Brazil and Chile, have more practical policies, ENAER built a few A-36 jet trainers and later started supplying parts to Embraer for the ERJ-145 program.

Brazil designed a regional jet, the ERJ-145 and sold it in more the 1000th units, same was the EMB-120 turboprop, these aircraft have parts made in Brazil, but also in the USA and European Union.

So Brazil went for the path of no Embargoes.

Argentina had also bad luck when they started the CBA-123 (a common Brazilian-Argentine program for a light turbo prop aircraft) the aircraft did not advance to series production


Today they are building parts for the KC-390 and Cicare builds light helicopters for the civil market

An example of the many non Brazilian providers in the Embraer programs, this makes Embraer aircraft more attractive in Western markets

Cobham provides the composite nose cone, refuelling probe, and passenger address system for the cargo version of the Embraer KC-390 as well as auxiliary fuel tanks and wing aerial refuelling pods for the tanker variant.

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Initially called AB-32 Sirionó I, I Bolivia is a helicopter designed and built by engineer Fernando Montes de Oca in 1994, in Santa Cruz de la Sierra Bolivia

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More from Argentina the Chi-7 of aerodreams



UAV version

kwaigonegin said:

IMHO Argentina would've rivaled many European aerospace agencies today had the country been managed right in the last 50 years and especially in the last 30. They had a robust economy, great talent and just like the US, many highly skilled engineers, scientist etc migrated (escaped) to Argentina post war after the collapsed of the 3rd reich.

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Yes Argentina was dealt a good hand but played it very poorly. Mostly due to the curse of Latin America. Corrupt politicians that are more concerned with their own prosperity than that of the nation they represent.


Back to bottling my Grenache

b787 said:

More from Argentina the Chi-7 of aerodreams

UAV version

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I need one of these for my Zombie Apocalypse escape plan.

Miragedriver said:

Yes Argentina was dealt a good hand but played it very poorly. Mostly due to the curse of Latin America. Corrupt politicians that are more concerned with their own prosperity than that of the nation they represent.


Back to bottling my Grenache

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Mirage the things are very complex, i totally agree about the corruption, and let us Remember Mexico and Argentina have very corrupt governments, however i would like to add many other factors played a part in the demise of the Mexican aerospace industry from 1950 to 2015 and the demise of the Argentine aerospace industry from 1990 to 2012.


I will tell you a few facts about Mexico not very known, in 1915 TNCA know in Spanish by Talleres Nacionales de construciones aeronauticas (national aerospace manufactures workshops), was building a fighter aircraft designed and built totally in Mexico, the engine and airframe were developed in Mexico, by 1922, TNCA was building fighters, attack aircraft and tanks.

This is the series A by TNCA a fighter aircraft built in 1917, designed and built totally in Mexico



Tank Salinas designed and built in Mexico by the aeronautical engineer Salinas at TNCA in 1917

But why Mexico halted fighter aircraft production?
The answer lies in several factors, the first factor was the preference for foreign aircraft, in the 1920s and 1930s Mexico built licensed aircraft and reduce the investment in Mexican aircraft, it meant that even by 1940, Mexico still could built light twin engined aircraft, by 1960 Mexico was at least 20 years behind the latest aircraft technology , by 1970 Mexico was totally out classed by the US.

This preference for foreign aircraft is product of corrupt politicians, that receive kick backs by foreign companies and political pressure by foreign governments.

This Happened to Pulqui I and Pulqui II too, but this also happened to the Israeli IAI Lavi and the Canadian Avro Arrow.

Brazil in that sense was very smart, by building the EMB-120 and EMB-130 these aircraft did not represent a threat to foreign rivals because first they were not fighters and second they had parts made in the West meaning that even　the EMB-130 was a threat to Cessna, it was not for Pratt and Whitney, Goodrich and Honeywell

The Embraer EMB-120



I think that is the reason Cicare is far more practical for Argentina than the Pucara and if the Tronador II wants to survive it will require to be used with peaceful aims and some international partnerships.
The Cicare helicopters are good for Canada because they have a Rotex engine build by Bombardier

in few words Brazil plays soccer as well as they play aerospace policies.

Sorry is not EMB-120 but EMB-110 Bandeirante and EMB-120 Brazilia

EMB-110, numbers built 498 aircraft


EMB-121 numbers built 101 aircraft



EMB-120 numbers built 354 aircraft

ERJ-145/135 numbers built 1118 aircraft

Sadly the closest competitor in Latin America is the IA-58 Pucara with 110 aircraft built