AEGIS and AEGIS Like escort combatants of the World

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
It's always fun trying to twist one's mind around just what "aegis-like" means.
Under some definitions, a ship is aegis-like if it has an advanced PAR and capable missile firepower.
Of course, what defines an "advanced PAR" is one question, and what "capable missile firepower" is also another -- for instance, is it radar type or effective range/size which is important. For instance, which out of the following are "aegis" radars, and why: thales APAR, SPY-1, SAMPSON, herkales, sea eagle, type 348 APAR?
For missiles, is it having VLS, a large number of VLS, or simply the ability to throw out lots of missiles (in which case, woudl the first ticonderoga ships with arm launchers be classified as "aegis"?)

Then there are more complicated definitions, whereby "aegis" is defined by the unification of a variety of sensors and weapon systems into a single combat system -- but all warships strive to that goal, and naturally, all achieve it to varying degrees. It would be interesting to compare a modern day FREMM with an early aegis ticonderoga and compare which has the more "unified" combat system.

A more "fleet centric" approach to aegis definition may include a variety of other off ship sensors, and refers to the ability of ships to datalink effectively with each other and other assets, in which case the term refers less to the capability of a single ship but rather the collective fighting capability. But that leads to the logical fallacy that a single burke operating alone wouldn't be considered an "aegis" ship.



Ultimately, I think all modern surface combatants are "aegis" to a degree -- after all, it is merely a marketing slogan -- but whether we choose to see it as such depends on our own personal biases.



An example: the singaporean formidable class would by all accounts be considered a decent aegis ship. 32 VLS cells, advanced phased array radar in the herkales, a european combat system. However it isn't "aegis". Part of this, is probably because the herkales is a rotating PAR, and that the SLYVER VLS is thus far only limited to Aster missiles.
Thus it begs the question, if the formidable class were equipped instead with SPY-1F and Mk-41s, would we consider it "aegis"? Furthermore, a mechanically scanning PAR isn't necessarily an impotent design either, because the SAMPSON of type 45 and EMPAR of the horizon classes are both mechanically scanning PARs and endow both ship classes into the general "league" of aegis-ness.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
I think Marocco's FFG is "Aegis like" in much the same way as a pistol is "Cannon Like". There certainly are undeniably similarities in the principles employed. But the world "Like" is clearly there to obscure the crucial differences in caliber.

agreed.. besides the word AEGIS is really meaningless.... people see a squarish phase array panel and go all WOW! AEGIS this and AEGIS that. The Type 45 Destroyer and her SAMPSON set for example actually consist of two rotating phase arrays inside the dome but to the layman she wuold not be consider AEGIS and technicaly she isn't.. yet she is one of the most capable AAW ships out there.

The actual terminology is AGS or AEGIS COMBAT SYSTEM that is specific to the Lockheed Martin system use in the Ticos, Burkes and license built to a few other ships like the Kongos, King Sejongs, Hobart DDG etc ... the AGS actually consists of multiple elements and integrated subsystems. The SPY1x arrays while the most visible part of the AGS is just one of many system working together to form the entire AGS.

This is what happens when you have less than educated writers and journalists writing military articles and pretty soon all rifles are call AK47s, pistols are all Glock and any ship that has a panel is AEGIS or AEGIS like.

Just because something is AEGIS or AEGIS like doesn't automatically make it an invincible system.. It's just a system people and it was coined by the product development team at RCA back in the late 1960s which itself was an evolutionary step up from the the ASMS Advanced Surface Missile system project .

Also phased arrays are not truly unique to AEGIS either because USS long Beach and Big E which houses the Hughes SCANFAR arrays or SPS 32 and SPS 33 antennas for surveillance and tracking... although the modern interation which are the SPY-1Dx are PESA based and operating in the S band.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Well the word does have a meaning, its a type of mythological shield once carried by the Olympian Gods of Greece. The modern term though has been slanged into a generic term for a number of systems. In Truth however Aegis is a brand name not a description
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Well the word does have a meaning, its a type of mythological shield once carried by the Olympian Gods of Greece. The modern term though has been slanged into a generic term for a number of systems. In Truth however Aegis is a brand name not a description

Aegis = mythic shield

AEGIS = sorta nonsense

AGS = Aegis Combat System
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
More like

Aegis: Mythical shield or Breastplate carried by the gods

Aegis: Brand of specific sensor equipment manufactured by Lockheed Martin for Naval and Shore based operations.
It's a brand like Rice Crispys or Ipad.

Some people however miss interpret. like calling all multi barreled rotary machine guns and Machine cannons "Mini Guns" or "Vulcan cannons" when In truth Mini gun refers to a specific weapon family the M134 7.62x51mm Nato MG, and Vulcan cannon only really refers to the M61 series of 20mm cannons found in fighters and CIWS.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The actual terminology is AGS or AEGIS COMBAT SYSTEM that is specific to the Lockheed Martin system use in the Ticos, Burkes and license built to a few other ships like the Kongos, King Sejongs, Hobart DDG etc ... the AGS actually consists of multiple elements and integrated subsystems. The SPY1x arrays while the most visible part of the AGS is just one of many system working together to form the entire AGS.

Just because something is AEGIS or AEGIS like doesn't automatically make it an invincible system.

Also phased arrays are not truly unique to AEGIS either although the modern interation which are the SPY-1Dx are PESA based and operating in the S band.
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I break it down two ways.

AEGIS vessels are just like you say, Kwaig. Meaning those ships that have the AEGIS COMBAT SYSTEM specific to the Lockheed Martin system used in the Ticos, Burkes and license built to other ships like the Kongo Class, Atago Class, Sejong Class, Alvaro de Bazan Class, Fridtjof Nansen Class, Hobart Class, etc .

AEGIS-like vessels are those from other nations that take on similar characteristics in terms of their overall combat systems which include similar capbilities in terms of their radar systsms, VLS, targeting, performance, etc.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Kleenex = LM AGS

tissue paper = Aegis like.

;) for the layman yes sometimes you have to take it down to the lowest common denomintor.

however in the world of technical specifications and operations if someone asked you to pass the Kleenex (instead of tissue) and you give them Cottonnelle people die or equipment fails! :(

Hope my analogy make sense.

Anyway this horse is way dead.. let's move on and it's my fault! LOL
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Kleenex = LM AGS

tissue paper = Aegis like.

;) for the layman yes sometimes you have to take it down to the lowest common denomintor.

however in the world of technical specifications and operations if someone asked you to pass the Kleenex (instead of tissue) and you give them Cottonnelle people die or equipment fails! :(

Hope my analogy make sense.

Anyway this horse is way dead.. let's move on and it's my fault! LOL
Hehehe...try handing someone Kleenex when what they want is toilet paper. Not a good substitute at all...but still better than a leaf...or nothing.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
I consider "Aegis like" to be a descriptor of capability, not of features or technology. A ship has a claim to being Aegis like if she is both intended to conduct, and capable of conducting, hemispherical large area air defense against high volume saturation air threats at all altitudes. The claim is strengthened if the ship is also capable of acting as a control hub for a integrated multi-platform area air defense network.

An Aegis like ship can employ PESA or AESA flat panels like Aegis, as types 052C and 052D do. But it would still be Aegis like if it can duplicate the capability with mechanically scanned array, as British Daring class does.

If a ship has PESA or AESA Flat panels, but can not conduct large area defense against all altitude saturation attacks, as Japanese Akizuki is not designed to do and probably can not do, then it is not Aegis like irrespective of the panels.

The Moroccan FFG almost certainly fall far short of Aegis like in capability. So it is not Aegis like.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I consider "Aegis like" to be a descriptor of capability, not of features or technology. A ship has a claim to being Aegis like if she is both intended to conduct, and capable of conducting, hemispherical large area air defense against high volume saturation air threats at all altitudes. The claim is strengthened if the ship is also capable of acting as a control hub for a integrated multi-platform area air defense network.

An Aegis like ship can employ PESA or AESA flat panels like Aegis, as types 052C and 052D do. But it would still be Aegis like if it can duplicate the capability with mechanically scanned array, as British Daring class does.

If a ship has PESA or AESA Flat panels, but can not conduct large area defense against all altitude saturation attacks, as Japanese Akizuki is not designed to do and probably can not do, then it is not Aegis like irrespective of the panels.

The Moroccan FFG almost certainly fall far short of Aegis like in capability. So it is not Aegis like.
Well, in my definition I do include the hemispherical nature of the air defense, but I set a range and altitude that does include the range and height that falls within the bounds of the extremities of the ESSM so the Akizuki does fall within it.

So my cutoff is different than your would be. But otherwise, our definitions line up very well.

Just depends on where you want that line to be. If you say "all altitude saturation attacks" then you could only include those vessels capable of BMD, which cuts out a whole lot of ship classes.
 
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