AEGIS and AEGIS Like escort combatants of the World

Re: Australia's Hobart Class AEGIS DDG

Engineer said:

Out of consideration of reducing interference for the aft-facing radars, such a design is actually better than the arrangement used on the Aleigh Burke and 052C in my opinion. The remaining alternative would be to use an arrangement like that of Akizuki class.

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Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.. with the APARs up high and clean like that it is probably a very good arrangement. I just think it's not attractive is all...I understand this is a warship and not a billionaire's yacht but still it's my personal opinion.

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

asif iqbal said:

regarding Kolkata Class, India has been working on them for over 10 years and we are yet to see 1st to be commissioned and theres a good reason for it

for Kolkata India imported from

Israel
EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar
Barak-1
E/M-2248 MF-STAR Multifuntion radar
Barak-8

from Netherlands
LW-08 Air Search Radar

from Russia
3M-54 Klub/SS-N-27 Anti-ship MI/SSM
MR-90/Front Dome Fire control radar
9M317/SA-17 Grizzly SAM
AK-100 100mm Naval gun
AK-630 30mm Naval gun
Kite Screech Fire control radar
MR-123/Bass Tilt Fire control radar
RBU-6000 ASW MRL
SET-65E ASW torpedo
Garpun/Plank Shave Air search radar

from Ukarine
DT-59 Gas turbine

in addition many sub-contractors went to outside countrys, this results in many different issues and problems, added to this, Indian military continues to change its requirments while the Indian goverment constantly trys to fit the ship to their requirments, so by the times the ship is built it has deviated far from its intial purpose, like Arjun MBT story

4 more have been ordered but i cant see them entering service anytime soon, infact equipment for Kolkata was ordered as far back as 2000 thats

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There is no Independent MILs in the World except US and Russia. Even US imports Rolls Royce Engines for the Independence Class. From the Brahmaputra Class to the Kolkata, India has tried as much to increase domestic components as much as possible. Thinking India can compete with the Pioneers with hundreds of years of experience is absolutely naive. Even China is no where in Quality or maturity in design. Everyone has to go through the same old Trial and Error Method.

while the Indian goverment constantly trys to fit the ship to their requirments, so by the times the ship is built it has deviated far from its intial purpose,

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Absolute BS. The Ships are made as per the specific Roles as defined by the Navy which in turn depend on the Foreign Policy of the Government.

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Jeff Head said:

Agree with pretty much all of that.

I would be surprised if the Shivalik continued in the earlier shoddy manufacturng.

As to the long construction time, they actually launched each vessel ffairly quickly in 2008, 2009, and 2010. They have been waiting on their own indegenous battle management and sensors, as well as particularly the final pieces of the Ukraining part of their propuslion. I believe this accounted for the dely and now that they ahve them, the outfitting is proceeding (as the pictures at my site shows) faiorly quickly. The will commission one thios year, one next year, and another in 2014. Then the four Project 15B will start coming out and they intend to have all seven commissioned bylate 2016 or 2018...and the Proj 15B will have the ER-Barak with I believe 110kn range which will help.

IMHO, seven such vessels, coupled with their new frigates will make very adequate escorts for their carriers.

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From a person I know who works at MDL, Shivalik is a couple of generations jump above the previous class made at MDL. It is the Most Network Centric Warship the Indian Navy has. When they started to make the Shivalik they themselves didn't knew what to make. Shivalik is Unique in the respect that there was no definition of Shivalik at the time of laying the Keel, Whatever the End Product they came up with is Shivalik and What they came up with? World's Largest Stealth Frigate of 6200 Tonnes.

In fact, during sea trials, Indian battleships that tried trailing Shivalik could not detect it on their radar within a radius of 100 km.

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weapons.technology.youngester.com/2010/05/ins-shivalik-s-class-stealth-frigate.html

6200 Tonne Warship with ASW, AShM and Limited AAW Capability is not detected within 100 Kms! That's well worth the 10 Years spent for such a ship.

And Shivalik is the Template ship of the Indian Navy for the First Half of 21st Century. Stealth is the Paramount Integral Part of every IN Warship. Kamorta is said to be a Junior Shivalik and has taken many influences from Stealth Techniques developed from the Shivaliks. It is said that with every New Class from P15A, P28, P15B, P17A and P28A in that order Stealth would be improving.

It is a practice for the Indian Navy that every ship is commissioned only after completing all Trials and checks. That is why you have a long time from launch to commissioning for the Indian Navy. Such is the Preparedness Level of the Navy that a Ship can go to War anywhere in the World at 4 Hours Notice even on the day of Commissioning!

Kolkatas are ready except the MF-Star and Barak 8.

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

afako said:

There is no Independent MILs in the World except US and Russia. Even US imports Rolls Royce Engines for the Independence Class. From the Brahmaputra Class to the Kolkata, India has tried as much to increase domestic components as much as possible. Thinking India can compete with the Pioneers with hundreds of years of experience is absolutely naive. Even China is no where in Quality or maturity in design. Everyone has to go through the same old Trial and Error Method.



Absolute BS. The Ships are made as per the specific Roles as defined by the Navy which in turn depend on the Foreign Policy of the Government.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------



From a person I know who works at MDL, Shivalik is a couple of generations jump above the previous class made at MDL. It is the Most Network Centric Warship the Indian Navy has. When they started to make the Shivalik they themselves didn't knew what to make. Shivalik is Unique in the respect that there was no definition of Shivalik at the time of laying the Keel, Whatever the End Product they came up with is Shivalik and What they came up with? World's Largest Stealth Frigate of 6200 Tonnes.

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Seriously, I think it should be called a destroyer. 6200 tonnes is more than enough to validate the use of DDG rather than FFG. The Type 052B DESTROYER is even lighter than the Shivalik class 'frigate'. Same goes for the Horizon Class 'frigates' in service with France. None the less, there are even more absurd examples of classification including the Japanese 'helicopter destroyers'.

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

jobjed said:

Seriously, I think it should be called a destroyer. 6200 tonnes is more than enough to validate the use of DDG rather than FFG. The Type 052B DESTROYER is even lighter than the Shivalik class 'frigate'. Same goes for the Horizon Class 'frigates' in service with France. None the less, there are even more absurd examples of classification including the Japanese 'helicopter destroyers'.

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According to Navy Personals, They do not want to ring the bells up in the neighborhood. But It does not possess the Firepower or AAW Capability. Sure It can be Upgraded. The 6200 Hull is still there!

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

afako said:

According to Navy Personals, They do not want to ring the bells up in the neighborhood. But It does not possess the Firepower or AAW Capability. Sure It can be Upgraded. The 6200 Hull is still there!

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It's the similar concept that the Japanese classified their baby carrier as DDH...

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

Jeff Head said:

Here's the line art I created for the Indian, INS Kolkata Class (Project 15A) for use on my Aegis and Aegis-like Vessels of the World site, HERE:

INS KOLKATA CLASS DDG​

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Nice line art for the ship.
But there has to be a slight correction in your website. The file "kolkata-08" featured as Project 15A ships are probably the Pr.11356 being built @Yantar shipyard.

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

Is the Barak 8 VLS cell? or launcher based. And does ship uses APAR or PESA radar?

Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

jackliu said:

Is the Barak 8 VLS cell? or launcher based. And does ship uses APAR or PESA radar?

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It is VLS. It has the MF-STAR ASEA Radar.

Every major maritime power is building more and more modern surface combatants, destroyers and frigates, outfitted with what I call AEGIS like characteristics.

For me, this means three things (which themselves encompass a whole lot of sub systems and principles in their makeup).

1) A vertical launch missile system to optimaize the number and rate at which missiles can be alunched, particularly for anti-air warfare, but also for launching other surface strike and anti-submarine missiles as well.

2) Phased array (and potentially dual or multiple frequency) radars that are very strong in terms of their range and discriminating power.

3) A battle management system that allows very stromng computing algorythms to guide and integrate the defenseive measures of these strong combatants, and particularly leaning towards the capabibility of cooperative engagement, taking charge of other task force defensive systems, to integrate the defense of an entire task force.

In today's world, with the types of threats that exist, their speed and their own complexity, these systems are absolutely vital if these vessels and/or the high value vessels they protect (ie. Carriers or Phibrons) stanbd into danger.

Here is a chart I put together regarding AEGIS and AEGIS-like vessels of the world and who has built and is operating them


Here are links to detailed pages about each vessel class from the various countries. These represent the nations that either have such vessels in service, are in the process of outfitting and commissioning them, or have them under construction at the present time:

Remaining Vessels: