AEGIS and AEGIS Like escort combatants of the World

A

antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

asif iqbal said:
regarding Kolkata Class, India has been working on them for over 10 years and we are yet to see 1st to be commissioned and theres a good reason for it

for Kolkata India imported from

Israel
EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar
Barak-1
E/M-2248 MF-STAR Multifuntion radar
Barak-8

from Netherlands
LW-08 Air Search Radar

from Russia
3M-54 Klub/SS-N-27 Anti-ship MI/SSM
MR-90/Front Dome Fire control radar
9M317/SA-17 Grizzly SAM
AK-100 100mm Naval gun
AK-630 30mm Naval gun
Kite Screech Fire control radar
MR-123/Bass Tilt Fire control radar
RBU-6000 ASW MRL
SET-65E ASW torpedo
Garpun/Plank Shave Air search radar

from Ukarine
DT-59 Gas turbine

in addition many sub-contractors went to outside countrys, this results in many different issues and problems, added to this, Indian military continues to change its requirments while the Indian goverment constantly trys to fit the ship to their requirments, so by the times the ship is built it has deviated far from its intial purpose, like Arjun MBT story

4 more have been ordered but i cant see them entering service anytime soon, infact equipment for Kolkata was ordered as far back as 2000 thats
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Do they keep changing the requirement because of the advancement (very quick) of Chinese systems (so Pakistan as well) ?
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

asif iqbal said:
regarding Kolkata Class, India imported from :
Israel


from Netherlands

from Russia


from Ukarine


4 more have been ordered but i cant see them entering service anytime soon, infact equipment for Kolkata was ordered as far back as 2000 thats
Click to expand...
Well, I believe for the Project 15A everything is now in place and we will see the first handed over to the navy this year. the second in 2013, and the third in early 2014.

I expect that with the Project 15B, now that the vast majority of components are in place, they will go faster such that I believe in 2015 two may be delivered, and then by early 2017 the other two will be delivered such that by 2017 they have all seven vessels.

And that will be good timing too. By then the INS will have two decent carriers in the
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and the
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, which will need one of these for escort duties each along with a couple of their new frigates at least.


And a third carrier will be nearing completion by 2017 for the INS too.
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

if INS Viraat serves until 2020 as expected that means it will become the longest serving aircraft carrier in history?

it was commissioned in 1959 and by 2019 thats would make it 60 years, USS Enterprise was commissioned in 1961 and is due for decommissioning in 2013, so thats 52 years

i see it as,

INS Viraat serves for this decade after its most recent re-fit
INS Vikramaditya joins in 2013-2014
INS Vikrant joins post-2015

but INS Vishal the bigger version of the Vikrant Class hasnt been laid yet, my guess is, it wouldnt appear until post-2020, very much doubting that India will field all 4 carriers at the same time, they will have 3 at the most, 2 at any one time

if all Harriers stay operational

then INS Viraat can take 30 Harrier aircraft
INS Vikramaditya can carry max. 24 Mig29K aircraft
and INS Vikrant will carry 30 Mig29K

so thats around 80-85 fighter aircraft for operations from carriers

sorry, this post should be in Carrier thread but i posted in this destroyer thread since we are on the topic
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

asif iqbal said:
if INS Viraat serves until 2020 as expected that means it will become the longest serving aircraft carrier in history?

it was commissioned in 1959 and by 2019 thats would make it 60 years, USS Enterprise was commissioned in 1961 and is due for decommissioning in 2013, so thats 52 years

i see it as,

INS Viraat serves for this decade after its most recent re-fit
INS Vikramaditya joins in 2013-2014
INS Vikrant joins post-2015

but INS Vishal the bigger version of the Vikrant Class hasnt been laid yet, my guess is, it wouldnt appear until post-2020, very much doubting that India will field all 4 carriers at the same time, they will have 3 at the most, 2 at any one time

if all Harriers stay operational

then INS Viraat can take 30 Harrier aircraft
INS Vikramaditya can carry max. 24 Mig29K aircraft
and INS Vikrant will carry 30 Mig29K

so thats around 80-85 fighter aircraft for operations from carriers

sorry, this post should be in Carrier thread but i posted in this destroyer thread since we are on the topic
Click to expand...
No prob with me. Cnsder posting it in my new thread specifically about Indian Carriers:

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-armed-forces/all-about-new-indian-aircraft-carriers-6044.html

As it is, the Viraat will be the longest...but I bet the USS Enterprise is by far and away the most used. Considering the tempo of deployments over those years and the tempo of the flight operations...no other nation's carrier could compare.
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

antiterror13 said:
Jeff, I visited your website about Indian Kolkata Class DDG, on the right side you put some photos of the DDG during construction in somewhere Indian shipyard ... where is it ? I am so shocked to see how dirty and unorganised the shipyard is.

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Mazagon Dock Limited. Apparently, it is one of India's most capable and oldest shipyard, it also built the majority of India's modern navy. I'll take Jiangnan over it anyday though, no offence of course.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

antiterror13 said:
Jeff, I visited your website about Indian Kolkata Class DDG, on the right side you put some photos of the DDG during construction in somewhere Indian shipyard ... where is it ? I am so shocked to see how dirty and unorganised the shipyard is.

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That's
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, or just MDL, in Mumbai. Unkempt though it may be, they have been in operation since the the early 1800s there, thought the current "business" was founded in 1934 or so.

They build a lot of commercial vessels (tugs, supply vessels, tankers, passenger vessels, etc. including Offshore Oil Platforms), but they are also the largest naval vessel provider (in terms of nunbers) in India and have constructed a lot o India's indegenous naval vessels and license builds, including surface and submarine projects. Here's the page about that
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.

So, it is old and unkempt, but there is also a whole lot of experience there.
 
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A

antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

I think you are just being generous and polite to Indians .. But I know exactly what in your mind :eek:

Nothing wrong of being polite
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

antiterror13 said:
I think you are just being generous and polite to Indians .. But I know exactly what in your mind :eek:

Nothing wrong of being polite
Click to expand...
Yes, I am being polite.

But also respectful. The US has learned very hard lessons in the past about underestimating nations that someone does not think are "very good," are up to somone else's standards. Those lessons were played out in rivers of blood, destroyed military equipment, and the wreckage of entire nations as a result of being unwary and not vigilant.

India is building a pwoerful Navy, no one should underestimate what they might accomplish with it...or China for that matter too. They simply cannot be underestimated in the least.

Hopefully, if we all do that, we can all play togther without major incidents in the big bathtubs.
 
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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

Jeff Head said:
Yes, I am being polite.

But also respectful. The US has learned very hard lessons in the past about underestimating nations that someone does not think are "very good," are up to somone else's standards. Those lessons were played out in rivers of blood, destroyed military equipment, and the wreckage of entire nations as a result of being unwary and not vigilant.

India is building a pwoerful Navy, no one should underestimate what they might accomplish with it...or China for that matter too. They simply cannot be underestimated in the least.

Hopefully, if we all do that, we can all play togther without major incidents in the big bathtubs.
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They could've done better, if they could sort out the project management and cut down the delays.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Indian Kolkata Class DDG

MwRYum said:
They could've done better, if they could sort out the project management and cut down the delays.
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All of us...and every nation, can always do better, particularly in the two areas you mentioned. Indians included. But they are making progress and the eventual carrier groups they put out with the Vikramaditya, the Vikrant and the 3rd one, when coupled with the Kolkatas and new FFGs and possibly one of those Akula II Class SSNs will be a group worthy of notice and respect.

Same will be true for the JMSDF and their new 22DDH vessels coupled with their AEGIS DDGs, the Australians with their Canbverra Class and their AEGIS DDGs, etc. Amazing technology and verying types of carriers and DDGs and FFGs being developed right now.
 
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