A Sino-US alliance, is that feasible?

bigstick61 said:

US patience with China on many issues is starting to wear thin, to include military, foreign policy, and trade issues.

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Not really. American today talks a lot nicer to Chinese than they did 10 years, even 5 years ago.

That's not the impression you'd get from Congress. Although the executive oversees diplomacy (and they are somewhat friendly with China) and conducts it, the most meaningful policies would require Congressional approval, and Congress won't give it, I'll tell you that much.n So ultimately, the dialogue is relatively meaningless.

re: USN help on PLAN CV.

If you offer your help to your friends on a certeian program, without providing them any meaningfull technologies they couldn't get themselves in reasonable time, but instead giving them the idea you do, you can to a certain extand stay involeved in that program to always know what your friends actually have.

Or you just need to make money Perhaps to (very slightly) balan the trade imbalance or get back treassuries...

goldenpanda said:

Some amount of competition is healthy for everybody. This is especially true for China. The need to unify Taiwan--with possible US intervention--is what energizes our military and technology transformation today. Without it China atrophies like in so many cycles in its history.

Compare to USA which instinctively creates threats and challenges for itself. USA, a country that has not been invaded in 200 years, has never lacked itself an enemy--mexico, spain, germany, japan, china, soviet union, CUBA, north vietnam, japan again, china again, north korea, iran, IRAQ. How easy it is for USA to discover how nasty some one's country is, when the discovery suits its needs!

It is two different perspectives of civilizations. The first perspective wants to eliminate threats, then enjoy the peace with wine and peaches. The second perspective wants to "keep'em coming". The hunter's search for game never ends. His instinct never rests. It is his constitutional vitality. It is his co-existence with the violence of nature.

The first perspective will always lose. That was China's lesson since the early 1990's. Hate Japan, take Taiwan--it is the move toward the second perspective. It is the sheep that is training to match the wolves.

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First of all what your coment have to do with a sino-american alliance? Thats the topic here isn't it? I gonna take the risk of comment on your point cause we can get busted by the moderators... anywas who dares wins. U.S. not invaded in 200 years??? I gess you are talking about the mainland. Cause in december 7, 1941 happens something in a U.S. territory. dont believe what I say do the research yourself, but you should know that... Also Japan try to invaded U.S. in the WWII... If they succed? Thats another story. U.S. Enemies you say soviet union and China right? they were the must worth enemies... the others were not even worth to say enemies. If U.S. really want something with Cuba we crush them long ago... but Cuba is not a Treath to us... Irak, Iran and North Korea were considere as rouge states...
Im not saying We americans are saints but allmust all of the enemies you mention were treat to U.S. --mexico, spain, germany, japan, china, soviet union, CUBA, north vietnam, japan try to take hawaii by force, china not really do something bad against the U.S. but Korean war than China try to help NK so thei can invade SK and reunit the Korean peninsula... off course under NK control, north korea well happens than UN/US forces decide to help SK for the right of be an independent nation just like their people want... Let me tell you one or two things of war... I've been there. first thing It's not a funny game, second U.S. is not a satan representation in the earth... Germans (I mean Nazi German) kill nearly 7 million people just because they were jewish and they dont considere them cute people or whatever the reason really was, they nearly eat destroy europa and attack U.S. allies and you espect the U.S. to cross their arms and do a damn thing when The germans tear our allies apart? Please... man that argument it's like kill a man cause he kill somebody to protect their love ones. Third... we can have discussions as long as you keep it respectfull as long as you are doing now (If you happen to be the same goldenpanda that comment in the chinese military videos in youtube.com...) Fourth I understand when people talk about military things in this website... and Im 100% honest with you I say many coments regarding China's military power in thouse forum, I admit that many of them was critizicing chinas military but I backed up allmust all with real facts and many websites as reference. But I NEVER SAY SOMETHING OFFENCIVE (NOT EVEN IN A DIPLOMATIC AND SUTIL WAY) AGAINST CHINA'S GOVERMENT or any other goverment. If you read history or you go to the university a proffesor will teach you that allmost all great countries have civil war, they commite atrocities and things like that... including USA, China, Russia, Spain, Englan and Germany... but you have to understand than alliances, cultures, moral values and many other politicalthings are changed by the times... I admire Chinese culture... I admire their goverment and I love the idea of a sino-american alliance but I know thats imposible at least for now... and I dont have to critize Chinese goverment just because it's different than the U.S. we americans may not be angels either but we don't hijack planes and crashed over somebody innocent just because they don't like us. China dont do that either... If you ask me we should team up and neutralize terrorist but that seems hard, very hard. If you like to help China or something like that I suggest you to join the PLA, take your Type 56 Assault Riffle and defend your nation and your belives with actions. Great countries, like USA and China need people who fight for them, indirectly helping your country you help your loveones. Perhaps someday (Im talking about long years) we americans and chinese have to fight fo the same... the to make this planet a better place to live instead using our ICBMs and WMDs to killing each other with a WWIII or something unrationale like that... "A great power bears a great responsability"

Korea war was a big misunderstanding btwn US and China, both sides were scared the conspiracy of the other. Actually Mao got the news of war from international radio broadcast, North Korean refused to provide Chinese any detail of the war until middle of September. Today Korea war was remembered in China as a backwater underdog suddenly merged as a world power, very little about American "invasion".

For American fault, they didn't care the Chinese frightened feeling, their troops were too close to the Chinese border. If only SK troops crossed the 38th, there wouldn't be the Chinese interfere. I understand some Americans resentiment esp in the American armed force, since they didn't win Chinese in the past conflict(Korea, Vietnam), and Americans like to be the winner. Samething about that communism stuff, Americans have been fighting with communism for past 50 years, they want to show the world they completely win it, but existence of the name of CCP makes American uncomfortable. Well, that's exactly the reason CCP doesn't want to change the name, even they abandon the communism - they don't want to be painted as a loser.

Anyway, talking nice is much better than playing rhetoric. Increase of understanding is very important for both US and China, and the countries impacted.

fishhead said:

Korea war was a big misunderstanding btwn US and China, both sides were scared the conspiracy of the other. Actually Mao got the news of war from international radio broadcast, North Korean refused to provide Chinese any detail of the war until middle of September. Today Korea war was remembered in China as a backwater underdog suddenly merged as a world power, very little about American "invasion".

For American fault, they didn't care the Chinese frightened feeling, their troops were too close to the Chinese border. If only SK troops crossed the 38th, there wouldn't be the Chinese interfere. I understand some Americans resentiment esp in the American armed force, since they didn't win Chinese in the past conflict(Korea, Vietnam), and Americans like to be the winner. Samething about that communism stuff, Americans have been fighting with communism for past 50 years, they want to show the world they completely win it, but existence of the name of CCP makes American uncomfortable. Well, that's exactly the reason CCP doesn't want to change the name, even they abandon the communism - they don't want to be painted as a loser.

Anyway, talking nice is much better than playing rhetoric. Increase of understanding is very important for both US and China, and the countries impacted.

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U.S. politicans lost vietnam... military it's another story... As for Korean war U.S. won in both... military and political... Objective keep SK sovremany objective achieve... if that is not true NK will control the entire peninsula, today we have about 37,000 in SK... That means we win cause SK is free from NK and we are there, besides we plant a minefield betwen both Koreas so NK cannot just walk and invade SK... U.S. Politics may be loosers (like nixon and bush) but we military never lost a major conflict. Chinese Forces Give us a hell of a fight but we still won. China should feel proud to give such fight to the best forces in the world. I dont thing China and U.S.A. might fight for now... but that doesen't mean that they are not going to be military buddys

You could take the whole Korea if only SK army was sent north, Mao was enraged when he heard McArthur didn't care his warning and Chinese never care about saving NK(they never appreciate for that neither). People paid price for the ego, well McArthur had a big one. Vietname war was another one for the ego, at the end it's Chinese that checked Vietnam's expansion.

I don't think American and China will be buddy in military in any future either. It took almost 100 years for both UK and US to recover from their hostility in 1776 and 1812. The scar needs a lot of time to cure.

fishhead said:

Korea war was a big misunderstanding btwn US and China,

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If there was a misunderstanding, the only misunderstanding was USA didn't understand China was capable to carry out its threats. There was no other misunderstanding. USA would not have cared if Chinese wanted to feel safe or not, just like they don't care about Iraqis today.

Had they conquered North Korea, they'd have used their power to support a Taiwanese invasion of the mainland. Look how many times they've invaded or help invade or threaten to invade South American countries, none of which were the level of threat of "Red China" in their eyes. American like to "go all the way", never mistake about that.

fishhead said:

You could take the whole Korea if only SK army was sent north, Mao was enraged when he heard McArthur didn't care his warning and Chinese never care about saving NK(they never appreciate for that neither).

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I don't know why you said Chinese didn't care about NK. Tens of thousands of NK soldiers helped us during the civil war. These soldiers were the first ones released to NK when the war started.

The warning wasn't just to stay away from our border, it was to stay out of North Korea. Chinese mobilized as soon as USA crossed 38th parallel. Before the armistice Chinese fought very hard to secure as much territory and defensive positions as possible for North Korea.

My suggestion is for you to read the historical government achieve release by Chinese government about Korea war, and scholar's research on it, not any propaganda stuff.

The warning, sent by Chinese through Indian govenment, is for US troops(UN troops) not crossing 38th, not SK's. Chinese official view about Korea war is that is a civil war.

fishhead said:

My suggestion is for you to read the historical government achieve release by Chinese government about Korea war, and scholar's research on it, not any propaganda stuff.

The warning, sent by Chinese through Indian govenment, is for US troops(UN troops) not crossing 38th, not SK's. Chinese official view about Korea war is that is a civil war.

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A quote from such "historical government archive" here would be nice.

Also UN includes SK.