2019 India-Pakistani border clash

Broccoli said:

It's a bad forum but BR is worse as they are sure that "chinkies & pukis" are now fearing mighty India. If those extremely nationalistic hindus begin believing their own propaganda (seeing how war hungry Indian media is) it's eventually going to effect their way of thinking and perhaps makes war more likely as they believe that India can take on both China & Pakistan.

Spreading that much propaganda is dangerous in the long run.

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Yeah the slandering and name calling on these Indian forums is worse than StormFront. Makes one think doesn't it. Certainly it also comes from a dark place of jealousy too. The louder they cry about "gooks", "chinkies", and "porkis" the more apparent their damaged egos become. There were a few trolls that pop up here once in a while. Of course using that language here with the intention to get an emotional response out of members is one way to an immediate ban. They'll cry Commie censorship of free speech which Chicom land doesn't have! ignoring how this is an American forum with diaspora participation and communication on Chinese forums on similar topics are candid and honest as. It's not the 1970s anymore. Luckily we have sorted those riff-raff out with civility.

Their mantra is to hide their own failures and embarrassment by casting criticism and negative attention on others. Chinese have been historically an easy target because we are not aligned with the Western world as opposed to Japan for example. Also, PRC is "Communist" supposedly. Somehow that's also 100% a terrible evil thing too even in the 21st century context. So they would like to repeat many different lies, hoping some stick. They are not too unlike the "Britishers" that wage this sort of psychological warfare based on manipulating opinions of dimwits around the world. The great irony is they aren't able to see how this will really all end. None of the possible outcomes end well for them despite their propaganda.

ougoah said:

Yeah the slandering and name calling on these Indian forums is worse than StormFront. Makes one think doesn't it. Certainly it also comes from a dark place of jealousy too. The louder they cry about "gooks", "chinkies", and "porkis" the more apparent their damaged egos become. There were a few trolls that pop up here once in a while. Of course using that language here with the intention to get an emotional response out of members is one way to an immediate ban. They'll cry Commie censorship of free speech which Chicom land doesn't have! ignoring how this is an American forum with diaspora participation and communication on Chinese forums on similar topics are candid and honest as. It's not the 1970s anymore. Luckily we have sorted those riff-raff out with civility.

Their mantra is to hide their own failures and embarrassment by casting criticism and negative attention on others. Chinese have been historically an easy target because we are not aligned with the Western world as opposed to Japan for example. Also, PRC is "Communist" supposedly. Somehow that's also 100% a terrible evil thing too even in the 21st century context. So they would like to repeat many different lies, hoping some stick. They are not too unlike the "Britishers" that wage this sort of psychological warfare based on manipulating opinions of dimwits around the world. The great irony is they aren't able to see how this will really all end. None of the possible outcomes end well for them despite their propaganda.

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India played their cards very well in 80s - 90s through Electronic & print media by which they managed the world attention by showing fake image of India (like Incredible India etc) and also used lobbies well around the world.

Which is not the case now, thanks to social media hence, their frustration is true.

timepass said:

Which is not the case now, thanks to social media hence, their frustration is true.

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No... the opposite is true.

Social Media and online platforms like Wikipedia have helped India a lot more than Pakistan, simply due to the law of averages. There are 10 Indians for every Pakistani on the internet. And this makes a huge difference on platforms like Wikipedia which work mostly on consensus of the majority.

What doesn't help the situation either, is that Pakistani editors and posters on the internet are usually younger and less sophisticated than their Indian counterparts. Most Pakistanis on the internet are just kids, and they are facing Indians who are professors in universities. And these kids of ours usually end up causing more harm than good, in their efforts to defend Pakistan, by taking logically absurd positions, on empirically unproven claims, and backed up by ridiculously weak sources. And when they get resistance from neutral spectators, instead of correcting their own faults, they usually blame the administration, play the victim, and cry about some grand conspiracy against them.

Most educated and older Pakistanis stay away from internet wars. Because they are smart enough to know that it is mostly a waste of time at this point in our history. They would rather look inwards, and fix our own house first, before bragging about how awesome we are to the rest of the world. However, this has created a huge disparity online between the narratives of both sides online.

This recent "border clash" media war was won by Pakistan despite all these obstacles, simply because the facts on the ground were undeniable. Even the super hawkish anti-Pakistan American analysts like Christine Fair were forced to express their utter disappointment with the performance of the Indian military. This was not due to any great effort of Pakistani posters or editors. In fact, Pakistani trolls for the most part did a lot of harm, again, by spreading nonsense all over the place (I've heard everything from Pakistan capturing an "Israeli pilot", shooting down three jets, and India planning a nuclear attack, with America's approval.) All of this weakened our narrative, when all we had to do was stick to the verified facts.

Fortunately, the performance of the PAF was so dominant, and the IAF failed so miserably, that no amount of self-sabotage by Pakistani trolls, or jingoism by Indian trolls, could shift focus away from the facts on the ground, which all heavily favored Pakistan, thank God.

ougoah said:

I've never seen so many people within a nation be so outrageously irrational and stupid. They give neo-nazi groups a real run for their money. But certainly their defense is up because deep down they know and rather than admitting to the embarrassing state of their military, their abilities (incompetence), and the sorry state of the overall way their country runs and functions, they double down on the hatred. Truly a case study for the ages. Pakistanis are understandably rubbing it in as hard as they can and to be honest, these arrogant Indian chauvinist punks deserve some humility so good work guys

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Than perhaps you've never been to a Trump rally before.

"Indian Radar Data That Supposedly Proves They Downed An F-16 Is Far From "Irrefutable" "
, APRIL 8, 2019

its almost as if people lost their ability to process logically

or maybe theynever had that ability to begin with

Mohsin77 said:

"Indian Radar Data That Supposedly Proves They Downed An F-16 Is Far From "Irrefutable" "

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, APRIL 8, 2019

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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Finally someone who actually is taking a impartial view and trying to sort the exorbitant amounts of Chaff from the wheat.
In Summery. Indian AWACS data is sketchy. They only lost a track. That doesn't mean a shoot down.
India has not released claimed radio intercepts of Pakistani recovery of their own pilots supposedly shot down. Not even transcripts

Pakistani claims of a Su30 kill are just a Sketchy as Indian F16 shoot down claims.

In the ground there is only 1 fighter downed confirmed. A Mig21 Bison.

Pakistan doesn't take credit for the downed helicopter all seems to point to Blue on Blue a Indian SAM shooting an Indian Helicopter.

The US has not officially confirmed a count of Pakistani F16 inventory as claimed by Pakistan. And such a count would take time as it's impossible for the entire Pakistan F16 fleet to be flown to one place or such a count not to take weeks.

And the war of Propaganda is still on. Both sides hurling unsubstantiated claims like artillery.

Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

kwaigonegin said:

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Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

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LOL! how was it when "U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing", Americans were shown around 85 Pakistani F-16s?

Jura said:

LOL! how was it when "U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing", Americans were shown around 85 Pakistani F-16s?

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I've heard there's a quarterly inspection of the entire Viper inventory anyway, as part of the contract (to make sure we didn't secretly transfer one to China).

This one just sounds like it was expedited.

And I don't know who first claimed that all the Vipers had to be at Sargodah Airbase in order to be inspected, but the original FP article never said that.

That would make all these quarterly inspections impossible.

The PAF would've flown inspectors to the Viper squadrons, not the Vipers to the inspectors. I'd guess Kamra, Sargodah and Karachi.