2015 PLAN Update & Review by Jeff Head

antiterror13

Brigadier
And the army is already very good and strong ... I don't see any country would dare to invade China with a ground force .... it would just a simply suicide, not even the USA + NATO + Japan + India ... still no match in Chinese soil
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
And the army is already very good and strong ... I don't see any country would dare to invade China with a ground force .... it would just a simply suicide, not even the USA + NATO + Japan + India ... still no match in Chinese soil
Sorry I missed this.

Of course a land invasion of China is not a good idea at all. The US has long held a policy that such an attempt would be folly.

The same would hold true for a land invasion of the United States. The Japanese, at the height of their power knew that it would be unsustainable.

But this thread is about the PLAN...and it's development. This 2015 update (which really reviews the 2014 accomplishments) shows how far the PLAN has come...and it shows no sign of slacking off in the near future.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Agree Jeff, a land invasion is only feasible for second or third rate country, not for major world powers.

I think China is very comfortable and confident with their Army ground force, the focus now is Navy and Airforce
 

Franklin

Captain
What I see in 2015 is that China's PLAN is continuing the transition of becoming a blue water navy. You have the fast building and induction of the Type 056 corvettes that will take over the brown and a lot of the green water tasks. This frees up more of the FFG's and DDG's for blue water tasks. You have the expansion of the AOR fleet for far away operations. And of course the expansion of the FFG and DDG fleets itself. The aircraft carrier program is moving forward and so is the Type 055 cruiser. China is now trying to negotiate and naval base in Djibouti. The effect of China's blue water navy buildup is seen most vividly in the evacuation of civilians from the conflict in Yemen. China did not only evacuate its own citizens but also those of other countries.

What I hope to see in the remaining of the year is the Liaoning with a full deck of planes and a escort fleet. A far away excursion for the Liaoning at this point maybe too much to ask.
 
Still banking on that PLAN LHD or two coming online before a second CV. The fact that China pushed ahead with inducting the Z-10 and Z-19 in numbers tells me they see the unique value and broad application of rotary air assets.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Still banking on that PLAN LHD or two coming online before a second CV. The fact that China pushed ahead with inducting the Z-10 and Z-19 in numbers tells me they see the unique value and broad application of rotary air assets.
What about the notion all helicopters can be used on the second CV, but it's rather challenging to operate J-15s off LHDs?
 
What about the notion all helicopters can be used on the second CV, but it's rather challenging to operate J-15s off LHDs?

Are the J-15's actually needed for some reason? If not, then a CV is overkill, and an LHD can also deliver via LCAC, other small boats, or amphibious ground equipment.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Are the J-15's actually needed for some reason? If not, then a CV is overkill, and an LHD can also deliver via LCAC, other small boats, or amphibious ground equipment.
Unlike J-15s, helicopters might have problems conducting fleet CAP and strike missions for China's far flung commercial and maritime empire. I'm not sure if you're just playing the devil's advocate, but the notion PLAN rebuilt the Liaoning, reverse engineered the J-15, and systematically trained ship and deck aviation crews as a standalone doesn't make sense. We'll see more Chinese CVs for sure, and maybe a few CVNs.
 
Unlike J-15s, helicopters might have problems conducting fleet CAP and strike missions for China's far flung commercial and maritime empire. I'm not sure if you're just playing the devil's advocate, but the notion PLAN rebuilt the Liaoning, reverse engineered the J-15, and systematically trained ship and deck aviation crews as a standalone doesn't make sense. We'll see more Chinese CVs for sure, and maybe a few CVNs.

I know I'm in the minority but I honestly don't believe a carrier fleet jives with China's foreign policy or strategic goals, at least until either the world accepts China as they are or decides to be outright hostile towards them. A lot of people feel that China needs a military in the image of those that came before them as they develop myriad international interests but I think that is really not thinking from China's perspective and objectively evaluating the strategic picture.

Maybe they will build a second Liaoning-mod CV per their pattern of initially rolling out two of each new ship class, I would still be somewhat surprised but I would be very surprised if they went further than that within a decade from now. If they do build a second carrier much of the justification would be to defray the costs of the entire carrier program that you mentioned and also have a more robust CV training program in preparation for CV fleet expansion in the even further longer term future.

As expressed many times in the past my opinion is that the Varyag was an opportunistic project, when else, where else, and how else would China get access to a carrier and information on a carrier program for cheap? No where no how, even now and probably many years into the future even with closer Sino-Russian military industrial co-operation, even if all of a sudden everyone became willing to sell carriers to China it would not be as good a deal as the Varyag was.

Probably out of a combination of hubris, politics, rudimentary PR skills, and career/reputation of enough important enough people being attached to the carrier program China itself may have made a bigger deal out of its carrier program than it really is. It snowballed overseas as it dovetails nicely with China threat scaremongering and others' fights to maintain or increase their own defense budgets.

That's just my train of thought, the jury's still out and time will tell!
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I know I'm in the minority but I honestly don't believe a carrier fleet jives with China's foreign policy or strategic goals, at least until either the world accepts China as they are or decides to be outright hostile towards them. A lot of people feel that China needs a military in the image of those that came before them as they develop myriad international interests but I think that is really not thinking from China's perspective and objectively evaluating the strategic picture.

Maybe they will build a second Liaoning-mod CV per their pattern of initially rolling out two of each new ship class, I would still be somewhat surprised but I would be very surprised if they went further than that within a decade from now. If they do build a second carrier much of the justification would be to defray the costs of the entire carrier program that you mentioned and also have a more robust CV training program in preparation for CV fleet expansion in the even further longer term future.

As expressed many times in the past my opinion is that the Varyag was an opportunistic project, when else, where else, and how else would China get access to a carrier and information on a carrier program for cheap? No where no how, even now and probably many years into the future even with closer Sino-Russian military industrial co-operation, even if all of a sudden everyone became willing to sell carriers to China it would not be as good a deal as the Varyag was.

Probably out of a combination of hubris, politics, rudimentary PR skills, and career/reputation of enough important enough people being attached to the carrier program China itself may have made a bigger deal out of its carrier program than it really is. It snowballed overseas as it dovetails nicely with China threat scaremongering and others' fights to maintain or increase their own defense budgets.

That's just my train of thought, the jury's still out and time will tell!

We've been through this before, so I won't repeat the discussion that we had, however I will say that I think you are vastly underestimating the need for organic airpower (mostly for CAP) for a PLAN taskgroup operating within westpac against an advanced foe, in the short and medium term. Carriers are the only solution for this need.

You also mentioned China's "foreign policy and strategic goals" in the previous discussion, could you expand on what you actually believe China's strategic goals are? Because IMO, China's strategic goals very much demands a robust carrier capability in the medium term at the latest, whether it is in the western pacific or in blue water.

In westpac and even within the first island chain, a carrier capability is wholly necessary (as I mentioned before) to provide organic airpower (CAP and strike) as well as to provide taskforce fixed wing AEW (essential in air and missile defence).
In blue water and in expeditionary missions (such as limited bombardment campaigns far in the future against say, non-state actors in Africa which threaten China's interests), carriers provide an essential large multirole platform for persistent ISR, strike, and CAP which no other type of vessel can match. And of course, AEW, CAP and strike are necessary in blue water to protect against states with competent navies that might try to take a bite out of PLAN.
 
Top