2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Russia can buy frigates from China. I think China would be more than happy to sell frigates to Russia.
Do your homework Piotr. The Mistral is not a Frigate. Whomever indicated this...probably a politician...has made a serious mistake in identifying the vessel.

The deal Russia has with France for the Mistrals is about large Amphibbious assault ships that Russia does not have any of...has not been able to build...andi hopes to get from France (two of them) so that they can then build another two of their own. It would be a HUGE blow to Russia if the French, who already have launched the first one, said that they would not deliver them.

Russia is building large facilities now to accomodate them and to enable themselves to build new ones. Huge investments have already been made by Russia. Russia is also going through a large modernization program for their Ka-52 helicopters, navalizing them so they can fly off of these vessels.


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That pciture and sitre are all about the Russian vessels. That picture is the already launched (bit not received) Vladivostok.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I wonder if US authoritys are pushing France to cut the with those Mistral Class that would really make the Russians think twice they have billions at stake with this contract
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Presidenta Cristina Fernández is a certifiable idiot populist progressive socialist that is ruining my country. The sooner we can get her and socialist ilk out of office the better. Then maybe Argentina can begin to heal and take its place with respectable nations again. I would not take anything she says seriously.

Thank you for tolerating my rank. I’ll sit down now.

I love you man, we feel the same way about our El-Presidente, maybe you could be my partner and we could take over for the Castro Boys, closer to the Equator for each of us, and we could both wear our big hats and our 1927 systema Colts, those guys need to retire anyway, we could give them a good pension, and we could turn it into a "benevolent dictatorship", we would run the Air Force, and bring on bd and Jeff to run the Navy, we could export lots of sugar and everybody would love us, but really feel free to lay down a rant anytime, kinda therapeutic griping, I know bd and Jeff are really sick of winter this year, and I'm sure our wives wouldn't mind those "first lady details"......I tried to find somebody ,to go in with me when BHO got elected.....

"oh, and those old Colts are gorgeous, checkered hammer spurs, safeties, and slide releases, they don't make them like they used to....... Wow!, thanks for the inspiration, its amazing how therapeutic that really is,,,,,
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
China could sell the 20k ton LHD that was shown at the Bangkok exhibition. Or if Russia can wait they can look into the domestic 30000 ton LHA that is rumored to start construction in the short future.
 

delft

Brigadier
Do your homework Piotr. The Mistral is not a Frigate. Whomever indicated this...probably a politician...has made a serious mistake in identifying the vessel.

The deal Russia has with France for the Mistrals is about large Amphibbious assault ships that Russia does not have any of...has not been able to build...andi hopes to get from France (two of them) so that they can then build another two of their own. It would be a HUGE blow to Russia if the French, who already have launched the first one, said that they would not deliver them.

Russia is building large facilities now to accomodate them and to enable themselves to build new ones. Huge investments have already been made by Russia. Russia is also going through a large modernization program for their Ka-52 helicopters, navalizing them so they can fly off of these vessels.

I imagine that most of the design and technological information has already been received by Russia. In the mean time they started to modify the design for the production of their own pair. If France doesn't deliver this pair they can build four that are even more similar and will save them some maintenance expense. Their first will then be delayed some years but it isn't as if they will need them next year.

Btw M. Bruno Le Maire is indeed a politician.
 

MwRYum

Major
I wonder if US authoritys are pushing France to cut the with those Mistral Class that would really make the Russians think twice they have billions at stake with this contract

They probably be doing that as we speak, but it'd actually hurt the French the most because if there's an embargo, the French not only runs the risk of contract breaching, but also have to find new buyer for those 2 ships.

So, the boycott measures thus far are nothing more than a slap on the palm, and a very soft one to boot...in the end, the West ain't ready to go WW3 with Russia over Ukraine.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
I think polling suggests a majority of Ukranians do want to stay in the Ukraine. Those that want to join the EU still want to be part of Ukraine - they're not suggesting they want to join Poland or Germany.

You are a wag Mr T

Very clearly nobody wants the previous status quo of an independent/non-aligned Ukraine. It is afterall efforts to end that previous status quo that has led to the current pass.

Nobody is proposing staying with the Hyrnvia currency or being governed by policies purely devised and administered by the Government in Kiev (or any other Ukrainian city).

Those advocating joining the EU are in favour of adopting the Euro and seeing a large portion of the their legal and regulatory systems devised and implemented via Brussels. If the Ukraine (or eventual rump thereof) eventually does join, the impact on such things as the CAP will be enormous and most predict the largest wave of internal immigration within the EU coming from these regions.
Those that want to join Russia want to adopt the rouble and be administered by Russian Federal Law.

In fact, the much derided second option on the Crimean referendum paper, was the option to return to previous independent status quo and barely anyone wanted it. Doubtless because they knew that irrespective, it was not an option on the agenda of the Government now in Kiev, even if there was otherwise any local apatite for it.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
Putin made a speech: Annexing the Crimea is for Russia like for Germany the reunification. He is not going to partition the Ukraine. And because of the special adress he makes to the Germans it is clear that he honours their commitment and will avoid a sanctions and countersanctions escalation.

As long as Germany is on board, the EU sanctions will be as toothless as possible and without Germany, they will be toothless. US sanctions are irrelevant for Russia. Russia feels self-sufficient in economics.

The ongoing military showdown in Crimea and the pro-Russian protest in parts of Eastern Ukraine showcase the possibility that the whole of Ukraine could move into the orbit of Russia. There's no reliable data on how many staunch opponents against a Russian alliance exist. The economic situation is dire and the lack of real commitment by the EU will likely make people wonder whether that option really pays as much as it promises. Within the EU, Germany serves their self-interests in maintaining strong economic connections with Russia and is a roadblock against agggressive EU measures against the cumulating Russian take over. This is a European business where the US can contribute almost nothing, because the US does not have the financial capability to launch a Marshall plan of economic progress for the Ukraine.
In military terms not much is to be expected of the Ukraine. They are building an ideological corps from the militant Maidan protesters to launch their military counterpose. This is widely interpreted as a sign that their regular military structure is dysfunctional and unable to pose any challenging resistance.

The whole Hitler-appeasement narrative is a smokescreen that hinders people from seeing a few basics.
The EU fucked things up by offering the Ukraine a really bad trade agreement that was very one sided in EU favour. The Ukrainian president Yanukovic did the right thing for his country by refusing it, when reading the content within that package. The additional EU demand of cutting ties between Ukraine and Russia was like asking Canada to cease trade with the USA. As soon as the terms of the offered EU agreement surfaces to a better informed Ukrainian public, they are likely to turn their backs to the now popular EU option. Germany is running counter the EU politics on this issue and is sooner than later going to prevail, further strengthening German position within the EU.
Russia had an agreement at the end of the Cold War that NATO would not expand east. Now NATO is on former Soviet territory in the Baltic and a EU-NATO integration was contemplated with Ukraine. From a Russian perspective the Reagan agreements have been broken for the last decades during Russian weakness and now they act in self defence, protecting the achievements Russia has paid for in blood and treasure during previous centuries. Crimea was one of the prime targets in order to enable Russian maritime and naval presence among the nations of the world. The Ukraine is a former borderland between powers such as Poland, Great-Lithuania, Russia, Turkey, Hungaria and the place of origin of Russian identity, the Kievan Rus. The Kievan Rus was the most powerful of a number of principalities that formed a federation of monarchs under one overlord. For these reasons it is not easy to draw clear ethnic boundaries between Russians and Ukrainians (it's akin to the differences between Northern and Southern Chinese). This is a very difficult issue and one of the best solutions would be to accept real basic democracy. If there is an overwhelming majority in Crimea really voting for unification with Russia out of their own free choice, then so be it. If such a feeling extends to the whole of Ukraine after the EU-fuck up surfaces, then there are no options, but to accept that Ukraine dissolves into Russia.
In the Western media exposure it simply drowns out what kind of deal the EU offered the Ukraine and what kind of deal Russia offers them now. The people of Ukraine want to escape the poverty trap that their economic and political situation created for them, despite their education, abilities and efforts.

I doubt that anyone is making the French not send their LHA ships to Russia as ordered. This is the major French arms deal and honouring it during these times of crises is most important for the French-Russian ties. Berlin makes it quite clear that they want toothless sanctions and will not pay economically for the EU created disaster, so why would Paris shoot themselves in the leg?
News is: Man bites dog, not dog bites man. For this reason utterly impotent political figures try to gain prominence by launching convenient agendas.
 
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