2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

BBC:

15:15:BREAKING NEWS Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.

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I think it would be a bad move if Russia attacks and kills official Ukrainian Military units. Having said that, does anyone on this board...or anywhere else for that matter...doubt it for an instant that Putin means it when he draws a "red line?"

Unfortunately it is probably too late. Russia now has de facto control of Crimea. The next stage will be to disarm the few Ukrainian soldiers there, pat them on the back, tell a joke and then send them home. Obama and Hague may cough and splutter, cancel summits and tell the hard training Para-Olympians to stay at home, but such things don't usually bother the Russians. While Russia has grabbed control, the rest of the world is still talking about "fact finding missions". Crimea will be given up as a compromise, will most likely end up as an independent country and then in a few years’ time when all the fuss has died down will apply to join the Russian Federation.

Mr Obama's message to Mr Putin seems to be about the rights of the Ukrainians to overthrow their own democratically elected government. I wonder if he would like the millions of Americans discontent with his rule to have that same right.


And when Putin shuts the gas valve next winter? Europe will fall into line. After all, they won't have "non-green" energy or nuclear either. What are they going to do? Burn wood to operate the Mercedes factory? The progressives in the western world have surrendered a long time ago. Admit it. We must accept to being a slave. It's what the majority of voters wanted - to be taken care of.

I feel sick to my stomach.

Jeff Head said:

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I think it would be a bad move if Russia attacks and kills official Ukrainian Military units. Having said that, does anyone on this board...or anywhere else for that matter...doubt it for an instant that Putin means it when he draws a "red line?"

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Oh he means it..no doubt.

The Russian occupation of Crimea has challenged Mr. Obama as has no other international crisis, and at its heart, the advice seemed to pose the same question: Is Mr. Obama tough enough to take on the former K.G.B. colonel in the Kremlin? It is no easy task. Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. “In another world,” she said.

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delft said:

From

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OT
Mr Kerry has a particularly short memory. He has already forgotten 2003.
With talk like this he makes himself and his office ridiculous.

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LMAO, that statement has moved beyond hypocrisy and landed straight on stupidity.

Jeff Head said:

BBC:

15:15:BREAKING NEWS Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.

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I think it would be a bad move if Russia attacks and kills official Ukrainian Military units. Having said that, does anyone on this board...or anywhere else for that matter...doubt it for an instant that Putin means it when he draws a "red line?"

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Assuming this redline is real I am incline to believe the Ukranians will surrender to the Russian forces peacefully. I don't believe there will be any major firefight. NATO will absolutely not engage Russia militarily over Crimea and if you're some private in a base there staring down Russian forces at your gates you best surrender because there is no backup cavalry coming to your rescue... and surrender in this case doesn't mean POW and gulag but rather a free trip back to your homeland to see your wife and girlfriend.

Miragedriver said:

Mr Obama's message to Mr Putin seems to be about the rights of the Ukrainians to overthrow their own democratically elected government. I wonder if he would like the millions of Americans discontent with his rule to have that same right.

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Two things, Mirage.

1st - Americans do have this right. Either through impeachement and then conviction, or through constitutional convention. And that Constitutional conventio can occur either of two ways, with 2/3rd of the Congress, or...completely bypassing the Congress...with 2/3rd of the States. If they ever do any of those methods, then it would be legal and constitutional in America. Only two presidents of the US have been impeached, Adndrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. Neither were convicted. Richard Nixon resigned because he was about to be impeached and would have been convicted and he knew it.

2nd- The Ukrainian people protested, and they do have the right to do that. Those protests turned ugly, and ultimately the Prsident of Ukraine fled. But that is not what legally removed him from office in the Ukraine. If it had, it would not be legal or constitutional. On February 22nd, the Urkainian Parliament, acting in accordance with the Urkainain constitution, impeached the President, convicted, and removed him.

As to Obama? He is a weak President and is not committed at all to traditonal American interests.

Obama draws red lines just to step back from them and apparently does not care how weak it makes him appear on the international stage.

Obama tell leaders like Putin that he can be much more "flixible," if he can just win an election, and then he and his adivsors are surprised when a man like Putin bends him over backwards in rediculous contortions to show the world exxactly how "flexible," he can make Obama be.

But Obama and his ilk will also not always be in power...and Putin knows this. So Putin, who is a strong leader, will take as much advantage of this situation as he can...make whatever gains he can, and then shrewdly consolodate those gains as best he can before that occurs.

bd popeye said:

Oh he means it..no doubt.

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Yahoo said:

Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. “In another world,” she said. .

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Oh, Putin is in touch with reality alright.

It is a harsh reality of his making.

The fact that western leaders are mystified by this, and cannot see it, is ample evidence that Mr. Putin will not be slowed or detered in the least. He is going to do exactly what he thinks he can, and what is in the best for Russian interests and plans and as he sees them.

BBC said:

US Secretary of State John Kerry has warned Russia could be ejected from the Group of Eight developed nations.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, he said, was "not going to have a Sochi G8, he may not even remain in the G8 if this continues," referring to a planned summit in Russia in June.

"He may find himself with asset freezes, on Russian business. American business may pull back, there may be a further tumble of the rouble.

"You just don't in the 21st Century behave in 19th Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext," Mr Kerry told the CBS program Face the Nation.

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Oh, this is really going to get Putin to back down.

What an absolute idiot and amateur.

Putin has troops and armor on the ground in the Crimea. He has issued an ultimatum to remaining Ukrainian troops there.

And Kerry and Obama think for a second that threatening him with not holding a meeting in Sochi is going to deter him?

Seriously? Really?

When Putin holds the key...or better stated...the valve to Natural Gas for all of eastern Europe and much of other nations there in his hand...his hand is literally on that valve...Obama and Kerry they think that an economic threat is going to deter him?

Putin will turn off that valve and those people in Europe will change their vote immediately, short of some credible threat to get Putin and Russia that he cnnot spin that would truly hut him in sach a way he cannot counter it. So that he willingly backs off and then conducts business in a credible fashion out of crisis mode.

There are ways that could be done. Unfortunately there are NO CREDIBLE WESTERN LEADERS who have the hutzbah or the stones to do it. So, Putin is very apt to stop only when Putin wants. The Urkaine needs to forget Crimea. it is gone...lost to them.

They should be focused on pulling back to their other borders, reinforciing, them, beefing them up, and hoping that they have enough strength and commitment to deter Putin from crossing those lines. If Putin honestly thinks he will get embroiled in an Afghanistan type quagmire in the Urkaine, he may forebare.

If he thinks he can walz in there and install his puppet, and that the Ukraine will cave...he will do it in an instant.

Its remarkable, the Ukrainian military is basicly under lock and Key in the Crimea. It reminds me of the old V mini series where the "US military was cooperating with the visitors" and then you see them walled off behind gates. Now this ultimatum, any resistance is likely to be a full blown massacre

Jeff Head said:

Two things, Mirage.


As to Obama? He is a weak President and is not committed at all to traditonal American interests.

raws red lines just to step back from them and apparently does not care how weak it makes him appear on the .

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TradItional American interests does not include Ukraine. Traditional American interest is in killing Russian with the death of a thousand cuts, not to go head to head with Russian in a big brawl within one country of Russia proper.

Russia is still bleeding from the thousand cuts, and soon the export of American natural gas will collapse world gas prices and deal a few more deep cuts to Russian torso. Flexibility and Ukraine not withstanding.

Miragedriver said:

And when Putin shuts the gas valve next winter? Europe will fall into line. After all, they won't have "non-green" energy or nuclear either. What are they going to do? Burn wood to operate the Mercedes factory? The progressives in the western world have surrendered a long time ago. Admit it. We must accept to being a slave. It's what the majority of voters wanted - to be taken care of.

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They'll burn cheap American coal

You surely don't understand that Russian assets are kept not in Russia but in Western Europe. If EU would work together for real that would break Russian economy in a few weeks as it's eight times bigger then Russian. EU can run on their reserves (and they're being made looking at prices which rose so this means that everyone buys) for a few months while Russia, which hardly produce anything that European countries need aside from oil, gas (around 70% of their overall export to the EU is oil and gas) and rare mineral raw materials would literally go bunkrupt. Bunkrupt in a sense no real money, not bunkrupt on account books like some companies do to dissolve responsibility in a thin air. And they would never get back to the previous state as all countries would put something 25% of it's need for gas and oil can go from the single source.

Miragedriver said:

Mr Obama's message to Mr Putin seems to be about the rights of the Ukrainians to overthrow their own democratically elected government. I wonder if he would like the millions of Americans discontent with his rule to have that same right.

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I hope for the strong Turkey in a decade or two from now on which will be able to match any move Russians would do with and back that up with military power that would far exceed what Russians can throw in (I think that right now they're in the state where their army is much better supplied and trained then Russian is). I'm not even mentioning their geographical position which says 'we can shut you and shot you like ducks in a pond'. That would surely bring stability to the Black Sea region.

And how much Turks love the Russians - we all know that well.