2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

Here is few pictures of those "armed men"... or should we say Russian marines? This is nothing but land grabbing operation.




At least in here Finland people have woken up and peace doves who criticized recent Leopard 2 A6 and Stinger purchases have disappeared somewhere...

Ukraine is an artificial communist creation . Western part of the country around Lviv(Lwow) was in Poland until 1939. and before that in Austro-Hungary . On the other hand, Crimea was part of the Russia until 1954. Rest of the country is mixed bag, but independent Ukrainian national awareness didn't exist until late 19.century .

Such heterogeneous country could survive only by carefully balancing various interests . Ousting of Yanukovych (no matter how corrupt he was) broke that balance . Currently neither side is willing to back down, so some kind of conflict or at least separation seems inevitable .

Broccoli said:

Here is few pictures of those "armed men"... or should we say Russian marines? This is nothing but land grabbing operation.
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Russian Marines?
Not impossible and certainly its a story many are trying to sell, but hardly the most likely identity of these men.

When a new government dismisses a body of some 5000 highly trained interior paramilitaries, it must be because they fail the ideological test. The little I have seen and heard of these men on the media does clearly show professionals, but no level of equipment beyond that which interior paramilitary forces are likely to have available to them.

If they are indeed proper soldiers, then again I would be looking for a domestic origin rather than from overseas. With all parties telling everybody in the country that this is no time to be sitting on the fence, it would come as no surprise if the Ukrainian Army is no less polarised and divided any less than the civil populace and on exactly the same lines.
In either case the removal of insignia is more likely to be the honest reaction of men who have no loyalty to the current government such symbols represent, rather than a clandestine and very personally risky move from Russian forces.

Another difference in reporting is that while the West is presenting the "counter revolution" as being restricted to the Crimea, Russia is presenting this is regions stretching in a curved line from Odessa to Kharkov.

Better take a second look at those photos Viking, that's Russian. Ukrainian issue is either flectartan clones old soviet union camo, or a digital woodland based on mustard green with black and faded lime grey. The pictures here are Full Current issue Russian woodland, the rifle is Ak74m. But where is the question. I mean these could be Russian Naval Infantry at Sovasipol for all I can see.

but wherever they are. They are Russian the pattern is EMR or digital Floral its the standard issue woodland pattern of the Current red army and has been in service for only the last few years.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Better take a second look at those photos Viking, that's Russian. Ukrainian issue is either flectartan clones old soviet union camo, or a digital woodland based on mustard green with black and faded lime grey. The pictures here are Full Current issue Russian woodland, the rifle is Ak74m. But where is the question. I mean these could be Russian Naval Infantry at Sovasipol for all I can see.

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Yes but its not the gear that matters, but the identity of the men wearing it.
No argument though, that if they were Ukrainian units, you would expect them to wear their usual uniforms.
There is an independent Administration in the Crimea that does not recognise the new Government in Kiev and which has asked Russia for "Humanitarian Assistance". Russia has this morning agreed to render such assistance.
Uniforms are none lethal and so could come under this heading, especially when it helps differentiate forces from other Ukrainians and therefore prevent tragic accidents. It will of course all help Russia up the ante.

As previously stated, I do not discount that these may be Russians, just the least likely option as there other credible identities for these men.

I have not heard that berkut men were dismissed. Rather the unit was disbanded, which presumably mean the men are still employed, but reassigned.

SampanViking said:

Yes but its not the gear that matters, but the identity of the men wearing it.
No argument though, that if they were Ukrainian units, you would expect them to wear their usual uniforms.
There is an independent Administration in the Crimea that does not recognise the new Government in Kiev and which has asked Russia for "Humanitarian Assistance". Russia has this morning agreed to render such assistance.
Uniforms are none lethal and so could come under this heading, especially when it helps differentiate forces from other Ukrainians and therefore prevent tragic accidents. It will of course all help Russia up the ante.

As previously stated, I do not discount that these may be Russians, just the least likely option as there other credible identities for these men.

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if it were just the shirt and pants, I could agree but this soon and this complete? Full uniform, matching web gear, gloves, balaclava, helmet and covers. Heck one of the Ak74M's even has a gun sight. Rail interfaces on the AKs, this is all top of the line Russian military. Not the stuff normally seen first day of issue to a burgeoning militia in a protectorate.
as a rule when you take on assisting with peace keeping and issue uniforms to the locals you want to try and keep track of who is one of yours and who are the locals. The US issued chocolate chip camo to both the Iraqis and Afghans until new uniforms could be printed. The Russians have about a dozen alternative uniform sets for VDV, MVD and from commercial stocks. Unique stuff not in Ukrainian issue and in the Georgian theatre we saw them issuing unique sets to local fighters to keep track of who was who.
I am telling you these two are Russian military.

This just in. Yanukovich is in Russia.
He fled there according to he because of threats to his life. He is of course stating that the Parliament in Kiev is bogus and oath to return.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

if it were just the shirt and pants, I could agree but this soon and this complete? Full uniform, matching web gear, gloves, balaclava, helmet and covers. Heck one of the Ak74M's even has a gun sight. Rail interfaces on the AKs, this is all top of the line Russian military. Not the stuff normally seen first day of issue to a burgeoning militia in a protectorate.
as a rule when you take on assisting with peace keeping and issue uniforms to the locals you want to try and keep track of who is one of yours and who are the locals. The US issued chocolate chip camo to both the Iraqis and Afghans until new uniforms could be printed. The Russians have about a dozen alternative uniform sets for VDV, MVD and from commercial stocks. Unique stuff not in Ukrainian issue and in the Georgian theatre we saw them issuing unique sets to local fighters to keep track of who was who.
I am telling you these two are Russian military.

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I have put in bold what I think is your key point in the above.
I cannot describe the response from the Russian/Pro Russian side in any other terms than "well oiled machine". I just cannot believe that the Kremlin has been taken by surprise by any of this and that a power play for the Ukraine was predictable, anticipated and prepared for.

I have no doubt that ever since the orange revolution, major plans were being laid to secure Sevastapol, reverse the revolution and ensure that the danger to Russian strategic interests could never be repeated. So ever since 2010 when the Orange revolution was reversed, I am sure very detailed plans have been laid to deal with anther colour contingency.
I think that the speed of the Pro Russian response is testimony to that. I am also mindful that the ethnic Russian community in the Crimea and Ukraine in general is neither leaderless nor rudderless and are quite capable of taking a lead, albeit closely co-ordinating with the Moscow sponsors.

The point here is that the Russian community are not bystanders in their own fate, but active participants in its making. This means it does not matter if these men are Civilian Militia, Ukrainian Military Personnel in Russian Uniform, Russian Personnel under Crimean Government Command or plain old Russian soldiers commanded from Sevastopol, they are operating in relation to a plan prepared and agreed between both Moscow and the leaders of the Ukraine's Russian communities.

The key reason why I doubt these are Russian Military forces, is because I do not see Putin as somebody who would need this sort of subterfuge. I think any troops he sends in will go openly and I believe firmly that he has already laid the groundwork for the humanitarian protection argument that would allow him to do so, no doubt with an urgent plea from the Crimean Government for help ringing in all ears.

At the end of the day though, it does not matter to me if they are or if they are not. It is simply to do with trying to be accurate. I dare say we will all know before very long.

Re: US military news thread

bd popeye said:

delft at this point in time I do not think the US would get involved in any military action in the Ukraine.

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I agree. The prospects would be worse than in Syria where direct intervention was cancelled. But I wonder about Hungary and Poland. The US must make it clear to them ( not necessary in public ) that they have to behave themselves.