2013 China Russia Joint Naval Training

FORBIN said:

reportedly be SLAVA class 011 VARYAG, UDALOY 543 MARSHAL SHAPOSHNIKOV and 572 ADMIRAL VINOGRADOV, SOVREMENNYY 715 BYSTRYY, GRISHA V 350 and 354, TARANTUL III 924 and 940, KILO class submarine(s).

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1 Slava class cruiser
2 Udaloy class destroyers
1 Sovremenny class destroyer
2 51C detroyer
1 52C destroyer
1 52B destroyer
2 54A frigates

Thats one hell of a "battlegroup".

Riverman said:

1 Slava class cruiser
2 Udaloy class destroyers
1 Sovremenny class destroyer
2 51C detroyer
1 52C destroyer
1 52B destroyer
2 54A frigates

Thats one hell of a "battlegroup".

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Yes, now imagine, at some point in the future, if the Russian/Sino exercise added :

1 x Kuznetsoc CV
1 x Liaoning CV
2 x Mistral LHDs
2 x Type 071 LPDs
2 x Akula SSNs
2 x Type 093 SSNs

When you add that to the

1 x Cruiser CG
7 x DDGs
2 x FFGs

You have an overall Joint Task Force that would be very difificult to counter. The US could...but it would require a LOT of resource. If Japan, Austarlia, the UK, and France got together, they could too...but it would take everything they could pull together.

No matter how you cut it, that resulting Joint Task Force would be as powerful a force as you could find anywhere on earth short of the US pulling out all of the stops.

As it is, here's what the PLAN sent:

FORBIN said:

reportedly be SLAVA class 011 VARYAG, UDALOY 543 MARSHAL SHAPOSHNIKOV and 572 ADMIRAL VINOGRADOV, SOVREMENNYY 715 BYSTRYY, GRISHA V 350 and 354, TARANTUL III 924 and 940, KILO class submarine(s).

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Hmm...how old are these ships? AFAIK russia hasnt built new hulls of destroyer-size or bigger since the end of USSR. I think that is the main weakness of russian navy. If they dont start building new big hulls, within 10 -15 years the biggest combat vessel in russian navy will be a frigate.

Jeff Head said:

Yes, now imagine, at some point in the future, if the Russian/Sino exercise added :

1 x Kuznetsoc CV
1 x Liaoning CV
2 x Mistral LHDs
2 x Type 071 LPDs
2 x Akula SSNs
2 x Type 093 SSNs

When you add that to the

1 x Cruiser CG
7 x DDGs
2 x FFGs

You have an overall Joint Task Force that would be very difificult to counter. The US could...but it would require a LOT of resource. If Japan, Austarlia, the UK, and France got together, they could too...but it would take everything they could pull together.
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In my opinion the USN would need to deploy two carrier strike groups and a surface action group to make up for the numbers

Each Carrier strike force would have
Nimitz Class carrier
Tico CG
2 Arleigh Burkes
And Virginia Class SSN maybe two

Times that by two and add a surface action group consisting of a
Tico CG and 4 Arleigh Burkes

Total inventory
Two carriers
3 CG
8 DDG
And two SSN or up to four

And if the USN really wants to up the tempo and achieve true supremacy they would need to add in also a expeditionary strike group and we all know what that entails

asif iqbal said:

In my opinion the USN would need to deploy two carrier strike groups and a surface action group to make up for the numbers

Each Carrier strike force would have
Nimitz Class carrier
Tico CG
2 Arleigh Burkes
And Virginia Class SSN maybe two

Times that by two and add a surface action group consisting of a
Tico CG and 4 Arleigh Burkes

Total inventory
Two carriers
3 CG
8 DDG
And two SSN or up to four

And if the USN really wants to up the tempo and achieve true supremacy they would need to add in also a expeditionary strike group and we all know what that entails

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That would be pretty much everything from Yokosuka, Sasebo, Guam and Okinawa and another CVN from Pearl. In other words almost all major combatants from the mighty US 7th fleet and and then some. I would stay away from the pacific rim if these two hypothetical forces get into a fist fight even if we're just talking strictly conventional weapons.

As to the russian Navy having old ships that is true however much of the weapons and sensors have been upgraded and pretty capable. Old or not a SSN 12 or the newer P-1000 Vulkan is something you do not want to see coming at you at Mach 2.5 with 1000 lbs of HE armor piecing warhead!!

asif iqbal said:

In my opinion the USN would need to deploy two carrier strike groups and a surface action group to make up for the numbers

Each Carrier strike force would have
Nimitz Class carrier
Tico CG
2 Arleigh Burkes
And Virginia Class SSN maybe two

Times that by two and add a surface action group consisting of a
Tico CG and 4 Arleigh Burkes

Total inventory
Two carriers
3 CG
8 DDG
And two SSN or up to four.

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Well, I could see 3 or 4 ways to build a suficient counter force.

A US/UK/French Multi-national Task force with 2 CVNs, 1 CV, 2 CGs, 6 DDGs, 4 FFGs, 4 SSNs, and 4 LHDs and 2 LPDs. 25 vessels

A WESTPAC US/Japanese/Australian multi national task force with 1 CVN, 1, CVH, 1 LHA (America), 1 DDH, 2 CGs, 7 DDGs, 2 FFGs, 3 SSNs, 2 LHDs and 2 LPDs. 22 vessels.

A completely non-US multi-national Task Force of UK/France/Australia/Japan with 1 CVN, 1 CV, 1 CVH, 1 DDH, 6 DDGs, 4 FFGs, 4 SSN, 4 LHDs, 4 LPDs. 26 vessels.

A full stand alone US task force with 2 CVNs, 1 LHA, 2 CGs, 6 DDGs, 4 LCS/FFGs, 4 SSNs, 2 LHDs, 2 LPDs. 23 vessels.

None of this includes the potential for Indian involvement, which, unless things were very extreme, would not occur pitting India against Russia.

asif iqbal said:

Eh 115 and 116 have no hanger so no helo

But that's the point, such a fleet has a handicap if it has two Type 051C cus they take up air assets of others because they don't carry thier own helos, each ship should have a helo hence I said six helos, but anytime you sail Type 051C you have a serious weakness

Anyhow it's not like theres a imminent threat it was just a observation of a weakness

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That's why they would make good carrier escorts. With a carrier full of helos, two less from the destroyers wouldn't matter much, and they do have a helipad, so helicopters from the carrier can be forward deployed to the 051Cs in the event of real combat to maintain good air coverage.

In terms or independent operations or forming battle groups, the 051Cs are limited, but for pure AAW escorts for a carrier, their lack of a hanger is no real handicap. But I would still expect at least one 052C/D to be part of any carrier strike group because of the better radar and battle management system and more missiles and versatility as is the case with the 052Ds.

I think its pretty obvious that this is a dry run for the Liaoning's escort package in preparation for when the Liaoning is to make a proper run herself.

One intresting question is if Russias Naval forces in the Pacific could match Chinas navy in a few years.

The Russian navy is getting relly old by now, specialy the larger units. The newest destroyers is over 20 years old now and the Cruisers aint better.

The Task Force

Wow makes me wonder why China sent such a larger naval task force! That's is a massive show of force, totally massive!!

Very nice pictures