09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Blitzo]

Are SSGNs expected to play a signficant part in the PLAN's underwater fleet of the future?

The Block 5 Virginias are extended in length in order to fit the 4 VPMs, which are meant to increase the missile payload per boat and succeed the aging Ohio-converted SSGNs.

So clearly the USN sees the importance of the SSGNs for its underwater fleet.

The majority of the USN SSN fleet will be non Block V Virginias, we do do not know if the future SSN(X) will emphasize such a large VLS capacity either.
Furthermore, part of the impetus for the Block V Virginia is because of the retirement of the Ohio SSGNs.

As I wrote in my previous reply to you, they could always develop a longer stretched version of 09V with more VLS if needed. However 18-24 VLS for YJ-21 sized weapons for the "standard SSN" baseline version would be very very reasonable, which both myself and Tirdent have written.



There is more to procurement than "keeping up with the Jones's".

Modern SSNs are replacing bow sonars with flank arrays or bow sonars are retained?

Flank sonars are not a replacement for bow sonars, they are a complement.

Which is to say, bow sonars are of course still present.

 

[tphuang]

You want to have more higher end missiles for penetration rather than just more tomahawk. Having 12m pressure hull means you can have more vls per row. Just larger internal volume in general. It allows to carry larger vls, more capable server computers, high end sensors and such.

24 vls is plenty. Even 16 in standard variant is enough if they can put 16 1.2m diameter hypersonic missiles.

 

[Blitzo]

You want to have more higher end missiles for penetration rather than just more tomahawk. Having 12m pressure hull means you can have more vls per row. Just larger internal volume in general. It allows to carry larger vls, more capable server computers, high end sensors and such.

24 vls is plenty. Even 16 in standard variant is enough if they can put 16 1.2m diameter hypersonic missiles.

The above discussions including those from horobeyo are of course all speculative, but I want to ask is the talk about a 1.2m diameter missile just from Lyman?

I really don't think his words should be considered seriously, and at this stage I would be hesitant to consider a 1.2m diameter missile as if it will emerge (though I personally wouldn't be surprised if such a project were in the works).


That is to say, at this stage I think if we talk about VLS launched missiles from future submarines (09IIIB and 09V), I think limiting ourselves to the existing missiles that we know are in service or in late stages of development is more prudent.

 

[Maikeru]

If 09V is similar to Seawolf I wonder if PLAN will also go for the enlarged torpedo tubes and new torps and other weapons to fit them? Seawolf has 26 inch tubes sleeved down to 21 inches, once Cold War I ended the bigger torpedoes got cancelled.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Finally, @horobeyo on Twitter has completed his predicition memo on the 093B and subsequent nuclear submarine classes of the PLAN for the future.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1621186476271865861

I would suggest having a read on his memo thread.

Until April 2021, China has 18 nuclear submarines:
SSBN: 1x 092, 4x 094, 2x 094G(??), 2x 094A
SSN: 2x 091, 2x 093, 1x 093G(?), 4x 093A
By 2025, the remaining 2x 091s and 1x 092 would have been retired.

The quickest estimate for the first 093B to enter service is in 2024.

 

[Chavez]

It uses a shroud propeller.this is the first time.

 

[Dante80]

Or it uses a propeller cover to obfuscate the actual shape during construction.

 

[blindsight]

Or it uses a propeller cover to obfuscate the actual shape during construction.

But unless they do it on purpose, the shape of the “cover” looks exactly like a pump-jet propulsion…

 

[Maikeru]

But unless they do it on purpose, the shape of the “cover” looks exactly like a pump-jet propulsion…

It's constructed in a covered hall.

 

[by78]

A confirmation that China is currently developing X-tail rudders for submarines. Images below show a procurement document from the China Ship Design & Research Center (a.k.a. 701 Institute). The document asks manufacturers to submit bids for a set of 55kN-m electro-hydraulic steering gear (with

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), to be used to actuate X-shaped stern rudders. The steering gear must be able to deflect all four rubbers at the same time up to 35 degrees to either side (i.e. 70 degrees total). The steering gear must weigh ≤1350kg.