09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[jnd85]

you are completely focusing on the wrong part of the story. Like seriously, get over it.

I was actually talking with some folks about PRC torpedo tubes and wondering if that might be the reason for so many submarine sinking incidents over the years. Anyone else hear anything through research or word of mouth? Interested in comparing notes, especially given the Little H.

 

[tphuang]

I was actually talking with some folks about PRC torpedo tubes and wondering if that might be the reason for so many submarine sinking incidents over the years. Anyone else hear anything through research or word of mouth? Interested in comparing notes, especially given the Little H.

What kind of nonsense are you talking about?

What are these submarine sinking incidents?

 

[leibowitz]

What kind of nonsense are you talking about?

What are these submarine sinking incidents?

I haven't heard about submarine sinking incidents but I have heard of near-misses over the years (anecdotally, and through the grapevine). From what I heard the incidents were limited to the 039A, with issues in the combined AShCM + torpedo system that were corrected in the 039AG. No issues in the 093 or 093B

 

[lcloo]

Did I smell $1.6 Billion?

 

[Michaelsinodef]

I haven't heard about submarine sinking incidents but I have heard of near-misses over the years (anecdotally, and through the grapevine). From what I heard the incidents were limited to the 039A, with issues in the combined AShCM + torpedo system that were corrected in the 039AG. No issues in the 093 or 093B

If you're suddenly gonna pop into this thread with this kind of assumption.

The burden is on you provide context/examples of those anecdotes, as well as some reasoning for why you would trust and believe them.

 

[siegecrossbow]

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so now that 093B is out in the sea and probably even conducting initial patrols. Which seems quite likely 3 years after the first one launched that it is commissioned by this point. I think maybe this article is coming up because people inside the pentagon are getting the initial reports on their performances and raising the alarm.

I remember back in the late 2000s, when 093s were first doing their sea trials and I was pretty excited by the news. Soon enough, articles came out basically where US navy was just saying they were really loud and later USNI updated their charts on just how loud the first 093s were.

So, this is quite the expected confirmation. I think it's reasonable at this point to think 093B is at least as quiet across the spectrums as the last bunch of LA class and possibly better than that.

Which imo, is enough to sail undetected once you get past the 1IC line without SSN tailing it.

That’s really impressive. If it is early Virginia level then that’s a major breakthrough for Chinese nuclear subs. Surface fleet comparison would be going from 052C to 052D in terms of capability evolution.

 

[tphuang]

That’s really impressive. If it is early Virginia level then that’s a major breakthrough for Chinese nuclear subs. Surface fleet comparison would be going from 052C to 052D in terms of capability evolution.

actually, the jump from 093A to 093B would be larger than 052C to 052D if what I think has happened is true. Even from the time that the last of 093A joined service until now, it's been 8 years. Those were 8 of the most productive years for China in terms of improvement in machineries, material and miniaturization and development of hypersonic missiles.

 

[Blitzo]

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so now that 093B is out in the sea and probably even conducting initial patrols. Which seems quite likely 3 years after the first one launched that it is commissioned by this point. I think maybe this article is coming up because people inside the pentagon are getting the initial reports on their performances and raising the alarm.

I remember back in the late 2000s, when 093s were first doing their sea trials and I was pretty excited by the news. Soon enough, articles came out basically where US navy was just saying they were really loud and later USNI updated their charts on just how loud the first 093s were.

So, this is quite the expected confirmation. I think it's reasonable at this point to think 093B is at least as quiet across the spectrums as the last bunch of LA class and possibly better than that.

Which imo, is enough to sail undetected once you get past the 1IC line without SSN tailing it.

I don't think that's necessarily the case, given this article is talking about 09V and it is citing good old Chris Carlson on it.

09IIIB is not mentioned, and given Carlson's opinions are about 09V, what's left unsaid is probably that he still thinks 09V is as quiet as an early Akula.

Overall this article seems to be written more on a basis of recognizing that Chinese nuclear submarine production has increased, but I suspect their understanding of the degree of qualitative improvement (for both 09IIIB and 09V) remains out of date and dependent on questionable experts.

 

[tphuang]

I don't think that's necessarily the case, given this article is talking about 09V and it is citing good old Chris Carlson on it.

09IIIB is not mentioned, and given Carlson's opinions are about 09V, what's left unsaid is probably that he still thinks 09V is as quiet as an early Akula.

Overall this article seems to be written more on a basis of recognizing that Chinese nuclear submarine production has increased, but I suspect their understanding of the degree of qualitative improvement (for both 09IIIB and 09V) remains out of date and dependent on questionable experts.

I agree that Carlson here was talking about 095, but I suspect the impetus for this article came from someone in intelligence community leaking to WSJ something along the line that Chinese subs are getting really quiet.

I think it is unlikely for WSJ to write an article like this with first line as "China is on the verge of becoming a world-class submarine power, with new technology and a bigger, better fleet that is gaining on the U.S. and its allies" unless someone is telling them this and since 095 isn't going to be inducted in a reasonable number until end of this decade, I think they are referring to 093Bs that are joining service now. Unless 093B noise level from initial sea trials and such have reached a certain level, there is just no reason to be talking about it this early.