09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[weig2000]

If the 093B comes even close to the 688i, that is one hell of an achievement. 688i is a formidable SSN. This would also mean all those ONI charts are partially BS.

The 095 very least should have a shrouded propeller and retractable hydroplanes, which the 093B does not have. That alone should shed a decibel or two at certain speeds.

So did the ONI confuse the 095 with early testing of 093B? I mean this was 1st published in 2009! 095 probably just ended design phase and just started cutting steel at that time. LA 688 like quietening would put the 093B in the middle of the yellow. Project 971U/971M, 688i would be in the orange while Seawolf/Virginia, Astute, Yasen would be in the red.

View attachment 28694

View attachment 28693

Clearly that ONI chart was made based on projected quietness of 095, according to the detected quietness of the (then) existing Chinese boats. It's at best an educated guesstimate and one shouldn't be too religious about the chart projection.

 

[FORBIN]

This graphic is not treliable a 093 is more quiet as a 094 etc...

If we use put with Akula I/LA China with 091, 093 too behind for jump more fast and so few infos right now for to consider it. It is yet a big step.
Popular science say btw LA Fl I/II, LA 688i considering all the known elements seems reasonnable and ( in more sure don't get a pump jet ) take the first.

And don' t need do bla bla with ONI chart old of 7 years i never use it as reference obviously !

And also do politic, propaganda in more not allowed by the rules...

How do this square with the fact that we're also seeing at least one 093A - the one with flared base but without VLS?

What you say, i have precise it... ?

 

[weig2000]

This graphic is not treliable a 093 is more quiet as a 094 etc...

If we use put with Akula I/LA China with 091, 093 too behind for jump more fast and so few infos right now for to consider it. It is yet a big step.
Popular science say btw LA Fl I/II, LA 688i considering all the known elements seems reasonnable and ( in more sure don't get a pump jet ) take the first.

And don' t need do bla bla with ONI chart old of 7 years i never use it as reference obviously !

The original 093 had very limited improvement over 091 - same reactor with modest improvement, and limited R&D after 091. China essentially put on hold the nuclear submarine program after 091. Things started to change in late '90s when the 1996 Taiwan Strait crisis and 1999 bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

Since then, nearly two decades after the relaunch of the nuclear submarine program and more than a dozen years after the first 093 commission, a lot of R&D investments have gone to it and China has experimented with 093A, 093B. Meanwhile it has had produced a lot more conventional submarines. Therefore I think using the progress between 091 and 093 as yardstick to project the likely progress between 093 and upcoming 095 is not appropriate and would vastly underestimate the quality and capability of 095.

It appears to be some consensus that 095 would somewhere between LA Fl I/II and LA 688i, my assessment is that 095 would be the first serial production of Chinese SSN and China would not commit to it if it will not achieve the (about) the same level as LA 688i. To me, it would the 052D of Chinese SSN.

 

[newguy02]

@Hyperwarp I wished that the ONI released updated acoustic charts last year when their 2015 China report went public last year, like how other members mentioned, it seems as if the 095 on the 2009 chart seems to have been mistaken for the 093B.

Further to add to this the Vice-governor of Liaoning said that China had completed the development of their 4th Generation Nuclear Submarines in 2015, I'm beginning to think that he's referring to the 095 in his statement, which would mean construction must've started quite recently (1-2 years ago), which would've meant it'll be impossible for the 095 to be in the water by 2015, but the 093A/B did start service around 2015.

 

[FORBIN]

Two new 093B, mainly no pump jet.
Huludao shipyard 06/2016
View attachment 28682
View attachment 28683

Interesting but possible they hide a hull especialy 095 to Huludaho according last view very recent with a new 093B seems not ?

 

[FORBIN]

The original 093 had very limited improvement over 091 - same reactor with modest improvement, and limited R&D after 091. China essentially put on hold the nuclear submarine program after 091. Things started to change in late '90s when the 1996 Taiwan Strait crisis and 1999 bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

Still a big improvement for noise minimum 15/20 dB ! for reactor you mean power also Han have a max known speed of 25 kn but some say in fact only 22 kn ?

 

[tphuang]

Yet i get hull number confirm exactly my notes i think for new also only thing 093A is the 413 almost sure and in more 2 news in construction on GE, worck exactly for number with list very recent in more.
I have yet see this site he is reliable all it takes is doing the right research with the good mandarin

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well, they built 5 094s, so I'm not sure about this.

 

[tphuang]

This graphic is not treliable a 093 is more quiet as a 094 etc...

If we use put with Akula I/LA China with 091, 093 too behind for jump more fast and so few infos right now for to consider it. It is yet a big step.
Popular science say btw LA Fl I/II, LA 688i considering all the known elements seems reasonnable and ( in more sure don't get a pump jet ) take the first.

And don' t need do bla bla with ONI chart old of 7 years i never use it as reference obviously !

And also do politic, propaganda in more not allowed by the rules...


What you say, i have precise it... ?

I think it was posted after they had updated data on the noise level of 093 and 094s from trailing them. 094 is a larger submarine that was built after 093. It's entirely possible that it could be quieter than 093. But if you look at the chart, they are basically the same generation.

As for 093B, we will find out in a few years once the US SSNs spend enough time trailing them and feel the need to declassify.

 

[Equation]

As for 093B, we will find out in a few years once the US SSNs spend enough time trailing them and feel the need to declassify.

IF they could find the 093B first, don't be so sure that the US subs are so superior that Chinese subs are helpless.

 

[Iron Man]

It would be shocking if 093B were any quieter than early flight 688. Somewhere in between 637 and early flight 688 is a more realistic expectation IMHO. There is only so much you can do to improve an obsolete design, especially if the 093B retains the 2 reactor design of the 093.