That's just pure cope. We haven't seen the PLAN in panic and hysteria over latest virginia either, by the same logic, it should be presumed ASW, 093Bs and SSKs render those into complete non-genuine threats?
09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread
- Thread starter SinoSoldier
- Start date
Let's stick to facts.
US Navy SSNs are the main threat, both by quality and numbers. There's just a handful of top-notch British and French subs and Russians are no longer considered enemies (anyway only 5 Yasen-M). There are 24 Virginias built so far and with SSN-X significantly delayed (as expected) and 688i being phased out, we'll probably see another 25 added in the next 10 or so years. Block IV boat takes 4-5 years from keel laying to commissioning, Brits, French and Russians are slower - 8-10 years.
If 093B indeed is mass produced I see two possibilities:
- 095 is still a decade away from mass production and Navy needs numbers (both boats and personnel)
- 093B is at least as good as 688i and, if some components from 095 are introduced, on level with early VAs and Astutes.
Otherwise mass production does not make sense.
US Navy SSNs are the main threat, both by quality and numbers. There's just a handful of top-notch British and French subs and Russians are no longer considered enemies (anyway only 5 Yasen-M). There are 24 Virginias built so far and with SSN-X significantly delayed (as expected) and 688i being phased out, we'll probably see another 25 added in the next 10 or so years. Block IV boat takes 4-5 years from keel laying to commissioning, Brits, French and Russians are slower - 8-10 years.
If 093B indeed is mass produced I see two possibilities:
- 095 is still a decade away from mass production and Navy needs numbers (both boats and personnel)
- 093B is at least as good as 688i and, if some components from 095 are introduced, on level with early VAs and Astutes.
Otherwise mass production does not make sense.
Based on almost decade observations, my opinion is:
1, We will see the first 095 soon, very likely in this year. The significance of 095 is closer to that of 055 in terms of surface ships, and its positioning is more like that of the Seawolf class;
2, The 093B is more like the 052D, with all the functions, but limited by the original design and size, the performance still has some limitations. As for its most critical quietness, I think it is definitely better than all LA class, and may have reached the level of the early VA. This is a conclusion based on the reading and understanding of a large number of relevant papers.
btw, my main point is that 093B is going to be a very capable sub, but we don’t know how capable it will be. And I would be more comfortable being conservative with projections right now.
and I think @Blitzo did a good job of explaining the nuances here.
the more important part is just what additional capabilities and options you get from having a large fleet of it.
Even without 095, the underwater balance will get inevitably changed.
All this happens while USN is going through retirement cliff for nuclear subs.
and I think @Blitzo did a good job of explaining the nuances here.
the more important part is just what additional capabilities and options you get from having a large fleet of it.
Even without 095, the underwater balance will get inevitably changed.
All this happens while USN is going through retirement cliff for nuclear subs.
The key is that even if 093B is not as quiet as earlier VA across all the regimes, it can be very useful. At 10 knots or below, it’s a huge asset for ASW within 2IC. And once it get to Pacific Ocean, it is very hard to find at that speed in a large Ocean. It can also significantly increase a carrier fleet ASW capabilities once it gets past range of MPAs.
Western submarines aren’t moving forward that quickly. A large number of 093B while 095 matures is a big deal. You need to build up supply chain and training pipeline. There is simply no reason to wait for 095 to add large number of them.
Western submarines aren’t moving forward that quickly. A large number of 093B while 095 matures is a big deal. You need to build up supply chain and training pipeline. There is simply no reason to wait for 095 to add large number of them.
Hi,
it is possible to check Chinese submarines capability, while checking their
movements through private satellites sources if these submarines are going
far away from their home ports and often been seen around Australia and near
USA bases, one can say that Chinese are now confident about the stealth and
noise of their submarines
but if these submarines are not been seen much far far away from Chinese bases
specific to those countries who are operating Poseidon P8 then one can say still
sometime before Chinese submarines can be fully or to some extent undetectable
underwater giants
thank you
it is possible to check Chinese submarines capability, while checking their
movements through private satellites sources if these submarines are going
far away from their home ports and often been seen around Australia and near
USA bases, one can say that Chinese are now confident about the stealth and
noise of their submarines
but if these submarines are not been seen much far far away from Chinese bases
specific to those countries who are operating Poseidon P8 then one can say still
sometime before Chinese submarines can be fully or to some extent undetectable
underwater giants
thank you
This post is literally just a joke, and this is a flagship thread, and you're a super moderator, can we not please.
I can't find the video now, but I'm pretty sure Marles or someone from Australia defense said something alone the line of they don't know if there was a sub in the task force.
I think it is likely that PLAN had sent a 093A along with the fleet.
This is kind of interesting to me. When facing a middle power like Australia, the importance of nuclear sub really shows up, because 055 essentially protects sub from having frigates and MPAs getting really close. If diesel sub is nowhere nearby, which is likely the case here with Collins class, there is not much Australian navy can do to actually get close enough to hunt down a moderately quiet nuclear submarine.
After all, not every navy has PLAN level of sensor density in ECS and SCS. Indonesia is not going to allow America to build SOSUS along its islands (at least to the best of my knowledge).
I wouldn't know enough about USN operations to know if they would be tailing a 093A leaving SCS. It's quite possible they would, but also possible that they stay far enough from sensor dense zone that they would not be tailing one.
But as 093Bs get added into the fleet, it seems to me that they can probably go solo into the water around Australia all the time and do whatever reconnaissance they need to do.