09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

Maikeru

Major
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I very much agree.

Hmm, I checked Weibo, Red Shark commented that the model was intentionally made with two fewer "rows" of VLS. The six "column" version does seem to leave too many empty spaces ahead and aft for my taste too ;)
I agree, the missile compartment in the model does appear to have room for an extra row fore and aft.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Western sources always fail in knowing accurate numbers of PLA subs.

This article wrote that PLA built 2x 093 and 4x 093A when the numbers stand at 3x 093 and 6x 093A.

I think the numbers for 09IIIA is somewhat indecisive.

Certainly it's not a case of widely confirmed consensus that six 09IIIAs were built, I would say a 4-6 range is reasonable.
 

grulle

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That sure is a very advanced looking submarine. Judging from its extremely modern and streamlined shape, what can we infer about the noise levels? This article suggests that from the outward appearance we can expect a significantly quieter submarine than previous models. You guys think at LEAST improved LA class? If not more quiet.
 

Blitzo

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That sure is a very advanced looking submarine. Judging from its extremely modern and streamlined shape, what can we infer about the noise levels? This article suggests that from the outward appearance we can expect a significantly quieter submarine than previous models. You guys think at LEAST improved LA class? If not more quiet.

We can't infer anything about its quietening based on its external appearance alone. It's everything else we can't see which matters as much if not more.

Besides there's been past speculation about what kind of quietening threshold 09IIIB might be reasonably aimed to have.
The picture of 09IIIB doesn't change anything.
 

Index

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That sure is a very advanced looking submarine. Judging from its extremely modern and streamlined shape, what can we infer about the noise levels? This article suggests that from the outward appearance we can expect a significantly quieter submarine than previous models. You guys think at LEAST improved LA class? If not more quiet.
The last ones were supposedly contemporary with 688i. But honestly there's absolutely no way to know for certain.

All we can use to clue is the public specs of the sub, it's publicly declared quieting systems, it's shape, and the overall quality of the nation's precision manufacturing ability.

Based on those clues, a 2024s Chinese SSN could be anywhere from around 688i to Virginia noise level. It depends on how well the updated quieting equipment integrates with the older hull, and how much the hull was modified to accommodate it.

Precision manufacturing wise, China is among the top in the world, and the 093B has the expected subsystems of a very quiet submarine. It is however in the "aged" hull about similar age as LA and Akula. But it's impossible to know how much the hull was modernized. If it is "just" modified a little and the improved quieting haphazardly bashed on it, it would be less quiet than if it's heavy modified inside and out to fit the new tech perfectly.
 

Kejora

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The last ones were supposedly contemporary with 688i. But honestly there's absolutely no way to know for certain.

All we can use to clue is the public specs of the sub, it's publicly declared quieting systems, it's shape, and the overall quality of the nation's precision manufacturing ability.

Based on those clues, a 2024s Chinese SSN could be anywhere from around 688i to Virginia noise level. It depends on how well the updated quieting equipment integrates with the older hull, and how much the hull was modified to accommodate it.

Precision manufacturing wise, China is among the top in the world, and the 093B has the expected subsystems of a very quiet submarine. It is however in the "aged" hull about similar age as LA and Akula. But it's impossible to know how much the hull was modernized. If it is "just" modified a little and the improved quieting haphazardly bashed on it, it would be less quiet than if it's heavy modified inside and out to fit the new tech perfectly.
Honestly its already great if it could reach Yasen Class level of noise. Yasen are prety formidable but Russia only manage to make four of them in the past 15 years. Imagine if China pumping out 3-4 Type 095 a year.
 

Blitzo

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The last ones were supposedly contemporary with 688i. But honestly there's absolutely no way to know for certain.

All we can use to clue is the public specs of the sub, it's publicly declared quieting systems, it's shape, and the overall quality of the nation's precision manufacturing ability.

Based on those clues, a 2024s Chinese SSN could be anywhere from around 688i to Virginia noise level. It depends on how well the updated quieting equipment integrates with the older hull, and how much the hull was modified to accommodate it.

Precision manufacturing wise, China is among the top in the world, and the 093B has the expected subsystems of a very quiet submarine. It is however in the "aged" hull about similar age as LA and Akula. But it's impossible to know how much the hull was modernized. If it is "just" modified a little and the improved quieting haphazardly bashed on it, it would be less quiet than if it's heavy modified inside and out to fit the new tech perfectly.

We don't have confident knowledge of 09IIIB's subsystems let alone whether they would be expected to be consistent with that of a "very quiet submarine".

Also being an "aged hull" isn't the biggest inherent issue, rather it is its nature as a double hull submarine which is more significant.

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We can certainly make some estimates and speculation about where PLAN nuclear submarine subsystems might be at these days and how well they can apply them to a double hull submarine of 09III family's size, in context of what relevant precision manufacturing capability they may have for it.

And sure, in the past people have thrown around the possibility of 09IIIA maybe approaching that of a 688-688i in terms of acoustic silencing, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that 09IIIB may advance that a bit further to 688i or even a bit better, but I think it's important for everyone to talk about acoustic silencing with a lot and I mean a LOT of caveats.

IMO if anyone tries to write about nuclear submarine silencing (especially for PLAN boats) without using terms like "speculation" or "guesses" or "estimates" or "hard to confidently say" then they are probably being too confident and they need to be dialed down a few notches.
 

Index

Senior Member
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IMO if anyone tries to write about nuclear submarine silencing (especially for PLAN boats) without using terms like "speculation" or "guesses" or "estimates" or "hard to confidently say" then they are probably being too confident and they need to be dialed down a few notches.
We'll just never get an exact answer, or only decades down the line. We also don't know how quiet the US subs are, it's all just guesswork based on the clues of how far along a country's industries are + how new the designs are.

A more accurate estimation is to say there are overlapping confidence intervals for Virginia/688i/093B/Akula/Yasen and it's very much up to imagination/speculation in which direction the confidence intervals overlap.
 
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