09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[antiterror13]

wait you are saying that China has 6 093B under construction now? that is pretty crazy number. assuming it takes three years for them to finish by 2029 China may have 10 of them.

It may not reach 10 in my opinion as Type 095 soon will be started or already started or is it possible to build 093B and 095 together ?

 

[sunnymaxi]

It may not reach 10 in my opinion as Type 095 soon will be started or already started

i have heard, two batches of type 093B will be produced. each batch consist of 8 Units..

 

[drowingfish]

only 10.. ?? Six units already build.

i think you said, additional 10+ will be manufacture by 2029.. it will be more

right now Huludao building 2-3 SSNs per year.. construction will speed up further.. Huludao have much more capacity. so its all upto PLAN how many units they wants.

I am not sure that the PLAN can train that many sailors...assuming 60 crew per sub, you need 2x that for a sub to allow for rest. 3 subs will mean a requirement to train 360 crew per year.

 

[antiterror13]

I am not sure that the PLAN can train that many sailors...assuming 60 crew per sub, you need 2x that for a sub to allow for rest. 3 subs will mean a requirement to train 360 crew per year.

I don't see any major issue for China to train and to get the manpower, unlike the US, EU and Japan

 

[tphuang]

Pump Jet propulsion ..

do we have proof it's using pump jet propulsion?

only 10.. ?? Six units already build.

i think you said, additional 10+ will be manufacture by 2029.. it will be more

right now Huludao building 2-3 SSNs per year.. construction will speed up further.. Huludao have much more capacity. so its all upto PLAN how many units they wants.

they are not already built. if they are already built, they will be all doing sea trials. I still operate under the assumption that initial batch is 8 & all 8 will be launched by 2025.
It may make sense for them to wait a little bit before building next batch depending on
1) whether they want to just go directly to building only 095
2) Do they find anything during sea trials testing of 1st 093B that will lead them to changing something.

 

[Blitzo]

do we have proof it's using pump jet propulsion?

For 09IIIB, I think it is reasonable to say (based on satellite pictures and the various possibly credible models) that they most likely do have a pumpjet, or at minimum a shrouded propeller.

they are not already built. if they are already built, they will be all doing sea trials. I still operate under the assumption that initial batch is 8 & all 8 will be launched by 2025.
It may make sense for them to wait a little bit before building next batch depending on
1) whether they want to just go directly to building only 095
2) Do they find anything during sea trials testing of 1st 093B that will lead them to changing something.

Sunnymaxi as always is using superlatives, but saying that six are "already built" is not unreasonable if he is referring to six having been launched.

"Built" to mean "launched" is not irregular use of jargon, and means they are in fitting out, sea trials or in service. Aka they are "in the water".

What is more up for debate is how many 09IIIBs have actually been launched, and our satellite imagery evidence is not as consistent as we would like.


However, saying "it is possible up to six 09IIIBs have been built and are in the water" would be rather reasonable at this stage

 

[grulle]

so from the rate that China is pumping these babies out, we can deduce they are satisfied with the noise level. perhaps maybe improved LA class level? haha I am salivating and hyperventilating at that thought.

 

[ismellcopium]

Toaster mentions original 093 were close to Sturgeon class boats. New 093 are decent, about LA class. (Patch mentions 688i)

I would expect the 093B to be at least as good as 688i, with the latter not having a pumpjet & being so much older.

 

[5unrise]

I would expect the 093B to be at least as good as 688i, with the latter not having a pumpjet & being so much older.

Given that the Block I Virginia class was first built in 2000 (somewhere around then), I would be rather surprised if the Type 093B isn't at least approaching that average noise level, given the time period difference. The idea that the 093A launched in early 2000s were around the level of the 688i is defensible, so it seems reasonable to believe the 093B is a step above that, even if SSN development hasn't really been a focus for the 1990s and 2000s.

 

[Blitzo]

Given that the Block I Virginia class was first built in 2000 (somewhere around then), I would be rather surprised if the Type 093B isn't at least approaching that average noise level, given the time period difference. The idea that the 093A launched in early 2000s were around the level of the 688i is defensible, so it seems reasonable to believe the 093B is a step above that, even if SSN development hasn't really been a focus for the 1990s and 2000s.

The 09IIIAs weren't launched in the early 2000s, more like the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Relative noise comparisons are getting to a level of granularity that's been done here before and is not that useful.
Just everyone agreeing that new variants and new boats are closing the gap further should go without saying.