09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Biscuits]

With all due respect since patch is usually a reliable source, but does it make sense to build that many 093Bs? These are vessels conceived during the era of Los Angeles class and Akula I. They're not fit for modern 1 on 1 combat with the most advanced SSNs.

The only navies they would work well against are the third world ones from ASEAN and the subcontinent.

It'd be like building more Type 956E after the designs for 052Ds are finished.

 

[latenlazy]

With all due respect since patch is usually a reliable source, but does it make sense to build that many 093Bs? These are vessels conceived during the era of Los Angeles class and Akula I. They're not fit for modern 1 on 1 combat with the most advanced SSNs.

The only navies they would work well against are the third world ones from ASEAN and the subcontinent.

It'd be like building more Type 956E after the designs for 052Ds are finished.

93Bs are probably to 093 what 052Ds are 052Bs in a sense. 095 is probably more akin to 055s.

 

[sunnymaxi]

With all due respect since patch is usually a reliable source, but does it make sense to build that many 093Bs? These are vessels conceived during the era of Los Angeles class and Akula I. They're not fit for modern 1 on 1 combat with the most advanced SSNs.

The only navies they would work well against are the third world ones from ASEAN and the subcontinent.

It'd be like building more Type 956E after the designs for 052Ds are finished.

Type 093B is very different from original boat.

detail analysis by @tphuang on type 093B

Huludao shipyard is big enough to accommodate multi Subs at a time. in near future both type 093B and type 095 will construct simultaneously.

 

[BoraTas]

Another expansion at Huludao shipyard photographed by satellite. Saw @Deino retweeted this Sutton's tweet, so I'll just post it here.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610936621834305540

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Apparently a new harbor is under construction by extending out from the old submarine construction hall at Huludao.
View attachment 104433

What's more interesting is Patch's reply to the tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610945872291848193

If Patch's information is accurate:
1. As far as what is known, at present, that there are 9x 093 & 093As in active service with the PLAN, with 1x 093B said to be fitting out at Huludao. So an additional 9x 093Bs to the fleet are indeed a huge increase of PLAN's future SSN fleet size (19 boats in total), especially if it could be done within short periods of time.

2. The two additional 094s with enlarged launch tubes (let's just call these boats 094Bs) would mean China's credible underwater nuclear deterrence fleet would be expanded to 8 boats in total in the future.

2.5. But man, when can we have our 096s...?

3. Perhaps the sole 095 said to begin construction/be under construction in Huludao is likely a test boat for the PLAN to test and verify the onboard facilities and technologies? Because I believe that if the PLAN is fully satisfied with the design and engineering of the new SSN class, then more than one 095s should be ordered instead.

There is a French submarine expert called Eric Genevelle. He had a long article about the 09-IV. He deleted it since then. There he argued there were 7-9 09-IV classes in service. He could identify 4 different variants using photo evidence from holes in the outer hull.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Strictly, this one isn't me as a primary source. I've just heard it down the grapevine from a friend I trust, so I'd caution you not to take it as gospel.

As far as 093Bs go, supposing this procurement info is indeed accurate, I would presume that the 093Bs will provide the PLAN with an opportunity to expand the qualified pool of SSN personnel, hone their tactical proficiency at operating capable SSNs in the MIDPAC, and optimize their overall Deployment > Employment > Sustainment complex for the quantity of SSNs and force-wide OPTEMPO they are aiming for.

These 093Bs are reasonably capable SSNs for what it's worth (nothing like the original 093, though certainly no SSN-21), and I consider their procurement in support of the above goals to be a prudent use of time and resources while the initial 09V is in its teething period.

Also, hello again to everyone. Some fairly large stuff is in the works with Rick, Y8s, Toaster, and a few others pitching in, so I asked for (and got!) the green light from my leash-holder to hang around here again. Just uh, I'd request that folks be mindful about what information they ask for, going forward

HEY! WELCOME BACK!!!

Sure. I do hope that we'll do our best to keep our curiosity within the limit.

 

[drowingfish]

Another expansion at Huludao shipyard photographed by satellite. Saw @Deino retweeted this Sutton's tweet, so I'll just post it here.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610936621834305540

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Apparently a new harbor is under construction by extending out from the old submarine construction hall at Huludao.
View attachment 104433

What's more interesting is Patch's reply to the tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610945872291848193

If Patch's information is accurate:
1. As far as what is known, at present, that there are 9x 093 & 093As in active service with the PLAN, with 1x 093B said to be fitting out at Huludao. So an additional 9x 093Bs to the fleet are indeed a huge increase of PLAN's future SSN fleet size (19 boats in total), especially if it could be done within short periods of time.

2. The two additional 094s with enlarged launch tubes (let's just call these boats 094Bs) would mean China's credible underwater nuclear deterrence fleet would be expanded to 8 boats in total in the future.

2.5. But man, when can we have our 096s...?

3. Perhaps the sole 095 said to begin construction/be under construction in Huludao is likely a test boat for the PLAN to test and verify the onboard facilities and technologies? Because I believe that if the PLAN is fully satisfied with the design and engineering of the new SSN class, then more than one 095s should be ordered instead.

wait is patch saying there are 9 093B's under construction right now? that'd be insane...

 

[clockwork]

Strictly, this one isn't me as a primary source. I've just heard it down the grapevine from a friend I trust, so I'd caution you not to take it as gospel.

As far as 093Bs go, supposing this procurement info is indeed accurate, I would presume that the 093Bs will provide the PLAN with an opportunity to expand the qualified pool of SSN personnel, hone their tactical proficiency at operating capable SSNs in the MIDPAC, and optimize their overall Deployment > Employment > Sustainment complex for the quantity of SSNs and force-wide OPTEMPO they are aiming for.

These 093Bs are reasonably capable SSNs for what it's worth (nothing like the original 093, though certainly no SSN-21), and I consider their procurement in support of the above goals to be a prudent use of time and resources while the initial 09V is in its teething period.

Also, hello again to everyone. Some fairly large stuff is in the works with Rick, Y8s, Toaster, and a few others pitching in, so I asked for (and got!) the green light from my leash-holder to hang around here again. Just uh, I'd request that folks be mindful about what information they ask for, going forward

Welcome back bro. The thing about 094s with enlarged tubes is very interesting, could potentially make the harping we've been hearing from all over DoD the last couple years about JL-3s entering service make more sense (which people in the nuke thread were skeptical of)? We'd mostly been assuming the JL-3 would wait until the 096 and it was some extended range JL-2 variant (like DF-31A) that was being inducted.

 

[gelgoog]

This makes sense. Since it would take a long time to develop the next generation submarine classes they just produce upgraded versions of the existing models. This allows you to train the workforce, the crews, and tactics for when the next generation comes out. This is similar to how the PLA introduced the H-6K into service. I disagree in building the prototypes in single units however. Given the vast construction capacity of the new submarine shipyards, and previous experience in other nations submarine shipbuilding programs and prior Chinese navy programs, I think it would make much more sense to build two prototypes for each new submarine class. China did this with the Type 052B destroyer, 054 frigate, and other programs, to me it looked like this made solving the issues in the prototype a lot faster than compare with say Type 051B and it also allowed them to train the construction workers more effectively.

 

[Totoro]

We had news of next gen slbm testing from *existing* 09iv over the last few years. (Meaning ones without enlarged tubes) So if there are 09iv coming with enlarged tubes, would that suggest two parallel slbm programs? One jl3 and other jl2a? Sort of similar to df31ag being put into service alongside df41?

 

[vincent]

Strictly, this one isn't me as a primary source. I've just heard it down the grapevine from a friend I trust, so I'd caution you not to take it as gospel.

As far as 093Bs go, supposing this procurement info is indeed accurate, I would presume that the 093Bs will provide the PLAN with an opportunity to expand the qualified pool of SSN personnel, hone their tactical proficiency at operating capable SSNs in the MIDPAC, and optimize their overall Deployment > Employment > Sustainment complex for the quantity of SSNs and force-wide OPTEMPO they are aiming for.

These 093Bs are reasonably capable SSNs for what it's worth (nothing like the original 093, though certainly no SSN-21), and I consider their procurement in support of the above goals to be a prudent use of time and resources while the initial 09V is in its teething period.

Also, hello again to everyone. Some fairly large stuff is in the works with Rick, Y8s, Toaster, and a few others pitching in, so I asked for (and got!) the green light from my leash-holder to hang around here again. Just uh, I'd request that folks be mindful about what information they ask for, going forward

Welcome back!