broadsword
Brigadier
Who would broach even that possibility when the geography does not exist?
075 LHD thread
- Thread starter nosh
- Start date
Who would broach even that possibility when the geography does not exist?
I do not think that china really need carriers today, or the next few years. But who knows how the situation is 20, 30 or 50 years from now? So I can only agree. PLAN needs to become a true blue water (global) navy, and carriers will be one of the components in this navy.
But (somewhat off topic) I am fairly sure that PLAN in the near future will have more use of (3?) LHD´s like USS Makin Island (LHD-8).
(i.e. a Chinese ARG = 1x LHD + 2x Type 071 LPD)
(Quote from an older article at globalsecurity.org) "LHD 8 will be a multi-purpose amphibious assault ship designed to transport and land a Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU), a force of almost 2,000 Marines, ashore by helicopter, landing craft and amphibious assault vehicle. LHD 8 will also have secondary missions of sea control and power projection by helicopter and fixed-wing vertical short take-off and landing (VSTOL) aircraft; command and control, and mission support, including a hospital with six operating rooms.
Although LHD 8 is the eighth ship of the Wasp class, it will feature noteworthy technological advances. Changes from the previous LHD design include: gas turbine main propulsion engines, all electric auxiliaries, an advanced machinery control system, water mist fire protection systems, and the Navy's most advanced command and control and combat systems equipment. The gas turbine propulsion plant, with all electric auxiliaries, is a program first for large deck amphibious assault ships and will provide significant savings in manpower and maintenance costs associated with traditional steam-powered amphibious ships."
The PLAN is going to have both.
They have been planning an LHD/LHA vessel for some time.
It has been discussed at length here on SD.
This thread was created four years ago as a palce to accommodate that discussion.
I expect that the PLAN is going to build at least three LHD/LHA vessels, probably 35,000+ tons which will be large, flat deck vessels capable of both air and amphibious assault.
When?
Who knows?
Rumors have abounded about such a vessel being started for several years.
Like the second carrier...we just have not seen it happen yet.
I personally believe we will see both of them (1st LHD/LAH and 2nd Carrier)actively under construction in the next 12-24 months.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
By the time you wait until you really need carriers to start planning or building it's already too late! PLAN are long term planners. Look at how long ago they bought Liaoning because I'm sure that was what they had envisioned PLAN to be today but invested 20 years ago in a rust bucket. I'm sure they are planing on a true blue water Navy in the next 20-30 years so they are planning appropriately to have 3 or 4 CSGs and you need to do that TODAY.
you can't build a CSG overnight let alone 3 or 4 LOL.
Yes, atleast 3 LHD. And I think there are a total of 6(?) type 071 LPD planned. So I suggest that there could be atleast 3 Chinese ARG, composed by 1x LHD and 2x LPD (i´m not saying this will be the actual composition of a chinese ARG. It´s just a suggestion).
Yes, you are right. They do need to start building carriers soon. So they have the carriers ready for duty if/when they are needed.
Was just saying that carriers are not the biggest priority right now, compared to LHD´s imo. And that LHD´s would be more useful for PLAN today.
English is not my first language. So sometimes maybe I leave something out, or something is not clear how I mean.
We have been saying the same thing around here on SD for a few years now.
1 x PLAN LHD
2 x Type 071 LPDs
+ escorts
This is clearly similar to the US:
1 x Wasp LHD or America LHA
1 x San Antonio LPD
1 x Whidbey Island LSD (or future LXR)
+ Escorts
BTW, tit looks more and more certain like the LSD replacement, the LXR, will be the same hull as the San Antonio LPD, but modified for the LSD mission.
Of course it will take the PLAN some time to become proficient in their use...but you have to start somewhere and with those resources they will be able to put in place a good plan.
One area they need to improve on is their LCACs. They have had a very few of those for some years now, and with now four Type 071 LPDs, I would have expected to see three or four times the number that they do have.
I began to wonder some time ago whether their design for their LCAC has been having problems or not.
They've been building a few more LCACs, with two in service and two launched/fitting out -- but obviously they're not building them as fast as they have the potential to.
I think their LCACs are not very high in the need for proliferation, partly because their performance may not be as optimal as PLAN would like, but also because the amphibious assault mission via LCAC is probably not one which is as important to PLAN as it may seem, compared to the need of other ship types and aircraft (corvettes, frigates, destroyers, carriers, MPA, fighters, AEW&C).
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of greater interest to me is how many more 071s they are going to build, and also how many LHAs they will want and how big they are.
I think no more 071s have been seen after the recent 4th hull, and there were rumours we may see a delay until an improved "071A". I will be interested to see if they seek a similar four hull build for 071A or only a two hull build for six LPDs total.
And the LHA question of course is important as it can be either the size of a Mistral, a Juan Carlos, or a Wasp -- all indications point to a wasp sized LHA but we need to wait and see.
I think their LCACs are not very high in the need for proliferation, partly because their performance may not be as optimal as PLAN would like, but also because the amphibious assault mission via LCAC is probably not one which is as important to PLAN as it may seem, compared to the need of other ship types and aircraft (corvettes, frigates, destroyers, carriers, MPA, fighters, AEW&C).
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of greater interest to me is how many more 071s they are going to build, and also how many LHAs they will want and how big they are.
I think no more 071s have been seen after the recent 4th hull, and there were rumours we may see a delay until an improved "071A". I will be interested to see if they seek a similar four hull build for 071A or only a two hull build for six LPDs total.
And the LHA question of course is important as it can be either the size of a Mistral, a Juan Carlos, or a Wasp -- all indications point to a wasp sized LHA but we need to wait and see.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Hi Jeff, just a simple question ... would it be possible and normal for DDG to carry more LACM and reload them on VLS? ... is it common practice?
I mean ... is it possible for lets say 052D to carry 100 LACM (I know a bit exaggerated), but only 16 VLS dedicated for LACM and reload them as soon as possible
I know a bit off topic, does the Russian have similar "Common VLS" like the American or the Chinese? I just never heard of
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Russia does not have a common VLS that is as comprehensive as Mk-41 or China's CCL VLS although they do have one type of VLS model can hold multiple types of AShMs
Rearming VLS at sea is a very difficult thing to do. Not only do you need a crane on your ship that may take up VLS cell spaces (as on some Ticos), but it is time consuming and difficult to do for multiple VLS cells, as you'll have to transfer tubes from an accompanying AOR or supply ship.
The USN has discontinued the practise, I believe.
there is a recent photo of 052D seemingly with an on deck VLS crane, but it is speculated that it may be a removable one only for use at dock to support VLS armament, rather than a permanent or foldable fixture on 052D that can be used at sea.
Jura The idiot
General
check what Bltizo said (the post right above this one) and let me add, very briefly since it's off-topic here, Russians don't have "one size fits all" VLS, but can mount
- "Redut" for anti-air missiles, which are either "heavy" (size: seven and half meters, 120 to 150 km max. range; with an option to engage surface targets), or "lite" (can be quad-packed; size: two and half meters, 10 to 15 km range; with an option to engage incoming missiles), but can be mixed in the "Redut" VLS:
- "Kalibr" for anti-surface, anti-submarine, anti-land missiles which are modifications of what you probably know as the Club missile; interestingly, I couldn't find a picture of a "Kalibr" VLS installed ... just a chart (am not sure how accurate it is though):
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