075 LHD thread
- Thread starter nosh
- Start date
Well, there you go.
MwRYum
Major
Unless the LHA operates on its own then it'd require to have its own medium range SAM umbrella, but that'd be unsensible because the common practice would have such a ship operates as part of a battle group, which has FFGs and DDGs to provide the SAM umbrella; but given that PLAN's FFGs, DDGs, SSKs, SSNs all lacks the capability to provide land attack strike package - though the advent of the 052Ds and 055 should change that, their limited VLS slots would still limit them to long-range SAM duties; not to mention the ski-ramp carrier air wings have very limited ground strike package per flight - plus attack helicopters won't be available in sufficient quantities in the coming decade or so, means emulating amphibious assault patterns used by US / NATO or even Russia's would not be possible, at least not fully.
Thus, it would be sensible to have the LHA pack its own land strike package in the form of cruise missiles.
Very doubtful that any LHA would seek to mount its own LACMs, regardless of how heavy a payload a STOBAR launched fighter can carry.
Part of the reason is because LACMs aren't really useful in a close fire support role if you're seeking to support an amphibious or even airborne operation.
More likely the VLS is intended for SAMs in a medium range self defence role, which is always necessary and useful (if not normal) for a capital ship of this type regardless of the complexity of its escorts.
And by the time such a ship is built they may well have enough attack helicopters and strike fighters from LHAs and carriers to support amphibious operations.
But anyway that model is a fan model so there's no use analyzing it..
Yeah, it's pretty much confirmed that their common VLS is able to or intended to be able to launch the navalized CJ-10. Although what mwyrum was getting was that PLAN ships like 052D may not have enough VLS to carry enough LACMs in their VLS as well as a safe number of air defence missiles to provide enough fire support. Personally I think that isn't the right way to look at it given such a complex operation like amphibious assault will involve a large number of escorts rather than just one or two 052Ds, and the particular load out of a ship will differ on the operation or the phase of the operation and there's no reason why they can't simply add an extra 052D with heavier LACM loadout or maybe add a few 054As to lighten the AAW burden allowing 052Ds to carry more LACMs; not to mention the presence of 055s will provide even greater hitting power in an independent ship if that is how the PLAN chooses to conduct a particular operation.
But all this of course is not that relevant to the subject at hand given LACMs aren't really a tool to support amphibious or even airborne assault. They're much more effective for striking at air bases, command and control centres and high value targets from a thousand kilometers away.
The PLAN will task its vessels to fulfill the missions, and group them in task forces to do so. That's the beauty of having such a common VLS.
With 64 cells they may not carry 40 that a US DDG might when tasked for heavy LACM attack, but they could certainly carry 12-24, and then have other vessels take up the major AAW burden.
I would be surprised to see an LACM VLS war load on any LHA/LHD.
With 64 cells they may not carry 40 that a US DDG might when tasked for heavy LACM attack, but they could certainly carry 12-24, and then have other vessels take up the major AAW burden.
I would be surprised to see an LACM VLS war load on any LHA/LHD.
Yeah, and if the mission really requires more LACMs they can either allocate another 052D with a heavy strike loadout to be escorted by other ships in a task force or introduce 054As or 052Cs as dedicated AAW ships while 052Ds are free to carry LACMs or a mix.
It is good that the PLAN have finally settled on a common VLS design, now they just need to build enough ships able to carry them. 052D is a good start, 055 will be the top end heavy hitter but I'd also like to see a new frigate design carry some 32-40 such VLS as well.
It is good that the PLAN have finally settled on a common VLS design, now they just need to build enough ships able to carry them. 052D is a good start, 055 will be the top end heavy hitter but I'd also like to see a new frigate design carry some 32-40 such VLS as well.
MwRYum
Major
Anymore discussion of 052D and 055 will get way off topic...though you guys does have good points there.
But, with the PLAN still obviously short on the land attack package (ie. the ships and planes that to carry them to firing range), they might need to look into other options to make up the numbers...
But, with the PLAN still obviously short on the land attack package (ie. the ships and planes that to carry them to firing range), they might need to look into other options to make up the numbers...
This is all academic, but even if we saw evidence of an LHA in early construction tomorrow, it would still only enter service by 2020, and by then I imagine nearly all the projected 12 052Ds will have been commissioned and able to carry LACM heavy loads that may be viable especially if such a task force is also composed of 052Cs and 054As in the primary AAW roles.
So how "short" the PLAN are regarding land attack really depends on the scale of the operation we're talking about, as well as when such an operation is going to occur.
If they're willing to commit only a pair of destroyers in an operation desert storm type situation against a foe similar to Iraq of the era set tomorrow, then yeah, there's no way they'll have enough missile tubes.
But if say, if it's 2025 and they're looking to conduct a Falklands type scenario against a military akin to the capability of Argentina's of the era and are willing to send the better side of half or more of their navy (say, three destroyer flotillas worth of surface combatants), then I'd say the PLAN will be more than capable in its potential LACM capability.
And a fully operational Liaoning, even if we are conservative and assume there is a slight penalty for STOBAR launch, will still be able to launch J-15s with reasonably competent A2G loads and more than operationally useful fuel loads simply given how large and heavy the flanker is, so that even if it can only take off at 3/4 of its MTOW, that is still a lot of range and an impressive amount of munitions to be carried.
If you're talking about CAS, then that is another discussion entirely because at present the PLA's fixed wing A2G platforms are not really oriented for CAS but rather for stand off strike against high value targets.
But in both cases, I strongly doubt we will see PLAN or any other navy include a LACM capability with their LHAs. The Soviets came closest by including a variety of AShMs with their Kievs and Kuznetsov carriers but they really were the last.